Submitted by David R on November 26, 2024 - 4:29pm.
There is not a government in the world that can stand up to our military power. On the other hand, our weapons are next to useless against jihadists. The war on terror cannot be won militarily. If we want to win, we must eliminate the conditions which feed terrorism:
1. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
2. Violence
3. Unemployment
We must encourage the conditions which suppress terrorism:
1. Security
2. Democracy
3. Education
These things are what terrorists fear the most. Unfortunately no politician wants to be labeled as 'weak on terror', so they are not free to make rational decisions.
The bad news about terrorists is they have learned to use human shields. This ensures that if they are killed, the images of dead babies will recruit many new terrorists to their cause. I recall a science fiction thriller a while back with small deadly aliens that would break into many pieces when shot. The pieces would scurry off into dark corners and grow into more aliens. Of course there were trigger happy soldiers who refused to stop shooting the things. When told to stop killing the aliens indescriminately, they would say "It sounds like you don't WANT to fight them". The aliens were only defeated when a more intelligent strategy was found.
Some sobering statistics on islamic militants:
Active AlQaida members after the fall of Tora Bora: ~200. That was 1 out of 5,000,000 muslims worldwide.
Active AlQaida members today: ~10,000. That's 1 out of 100,000 muslims worldwide, or 50 times the number before the invasion of Iraq.
If only 1% of muslims joined AlQaida, there would be 1000 times as many as today, or 10,000,000 members. This is enough to threaten civilization.
Clearly there is a LOT of room for the problem to get worse. That is why it is to their advantage to draw american troops anywhere they can. That is why they kill Shi'ites. That is why they want to overthrow all arab governments. That is why the Iranian and Syrian governments fear them, and why Saddam feared them.
And that is why we need a more intelligent strategy, and we must be unified and reject the 'weak on terror' label. Should we kill terrorists when we have the chance? Yes, but only in cases where it actually makes us safer.
Submitted by jackofroses on July 17, 2024 - 11:46pm.
David,
You've omitted a crucial element when discussing the reasons for Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism - that the United States has in the past and continues to meddle in the internal affairs of other nations. Always in the name of freedom and democracy but if the truth be told the motivation for these activities is simple and clear... the corporate internationalist plundering and exploitation of the resources and peoples of other nations.
Were other nations interfering in the internal affairs of the US, exploiting our resources and people, you can be sure that some portion of the American population would rise up in rebellion, the same kind of rebellion we are witnessing in the Middle East.
If you accept this premise then the solution is obvious and evident. If we continue to allow the government of the US to set policies that serve the interests of the internationalist corporations, there WILL be consequences and we will surely get what we deserve. Remind yourself that these corporations have no loyalty to the US... only to profit and power.
Islamic Fundamentalism Extremism, the current model of terrorism is a world wide movement that has its’ roots in Saudi Arabia (ca 1950’s). Their apparent goal is to reestablish the Caliphate. The expendable portion of their goal is the entire Western Life style. Since the inception of their goal they have consistently attacked Western Life style elements with ever increasing violence. We in America and Europe have simply ignored the acts of aggression until 9/11. Most people believe that it is a simple matter to strike at one small segment of the many headed cancer and the issue will be resolved. Nothing is further from the truth. Like a cancer it requires a multi pronged world wide attack. Those who refuse to acknowledge the past are destined to relive it.
Forget that strategy stuff. This movement is about centrism, so like it or not, we must support a centrist position. In a way we give up our personal point of view to the populist point of view.
The populist I think wants isolation, borders protected from those who would bomb us, and swift and immediate penalty for those who do. I dont think the average person wants us to engage in extending our power or glory or whatever.
Populist viewpoints are simple solutions to simple problems.
Submitted by alanmoor on November 28, 2024 - 9:30am.
While I agree with most of what you say, I'm not sure who was doing the polling of Al Quaeda's numbers before and after the Iragi invasion. Kind of hard to get good data on an organization as highly secretive as Al Quaeda.
In any case, I think you missed one important "condition" that increases Islamic extremism. That is the influence of Wahhabism and the belief that the influence of Western culture is evil and must be stopped. The idea of democracy is one of the problems, not the answer, and that is where we fail. The Fundamentalist Muslim does not want democracy. To them, democracy is chaos, the Imams are supposed to be the government. The stated policy of installing democratic governments is pretty much a declaration of war.
Thinking that all of this will "just go away" if we mind our own business is naive. The shrinking of the world by communications technology (TV, the Internet, etc) has brought our two cultures into conflict. A conflict that one side is willing to die for.
I don't have a solution, but we at least need to recognize that this is a war that will continue whether we like it or not.
Submitted by Ayesha Haqqiqa on December 6, 2024 - 8:57pm.
cringe at the mention of al Qaeda and the Wahhabists as much as any Westerner, because in the minds of many (if not all;I cannot speak for all, only those I know)Wahhabism distorts Islam and is not following Islamic practices.
One way to fight this war is to learn about and make friends with moderate and progressive Muslims. The Sufis as a rule would fall into the progressive category;they can be Sunni, Shia, or Universal. Their organizations, called Orders, are generally international in scope, and the senior teachers I have encountered have all counseled on taking a tolerant, non-violent approach to things. Sufis in many Muslim countries are "underground"-Saudi Arabia forbids open worship by Sufis, Iran destroys Sufi centers, and in other areas Sufi shaykhs who try to build bridges and reach out to other faiths are threatened. I would like to see some support for Sufis and some dialog with some of the wonderful Sufi teachers with government officials. I believe much could be learned.
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:45pm.
ALthough i do agree with some of wat your saying, other sections in islam can also be progressive.. not all sunnis or shias are destructive like those in iraq.
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:42pm.
that is completly wrong... in islam it never says that the imams should rule.. and muslims are like anyone else .. they do want democracy... it's just ppl like terrorists that want to gain power and use the U.S. and a reason to start a holy war... no one wants to be ruled by a dictartor, or imam... no one wanted to be ruled by saddam and no one wants to be ruled by the saudi royal family... democracy is the best know kind of goverment in our time... and everyone wants it if they dont have it.. and those that have it .. take it for granted... the chinese and taiwanese want democracy but they know if they revolt they could end up in jail or even worse.. executed... the same with saudia arabia.. ppl wont revolt cuz they are afraid of being killed, or sent to jail for life, or being wipped.... it's these strict laws and make less and less ppl fight for independance.
Submitted by John Milligan on February 9, 2024 - 8:11pm.
Hey so am I! But let's focus on the issues! That is the Christian thing to do! People don't like holier-than thou-preaching and it's a real real turn off esp in this forum that is trying toget something done.
I still don't think the majority of centrists want to fight terrorism overseas. We certainly don't want it here, but I am not sure the average American thinks we owe it to anyone to fight this across the world.
Indeed, it seems to me like there is simply not a lot of international support either for a military response to terrorism by the US military.
So if the populace doesnt want to extend out powers and other nations don't want us to, who does want us to and why should we do what they want vs. what the majority wants??
Submitted by alanmoor on December 4, 2024 - 10:57am.
Contrary to what the far left would have you believe, we didn't start the fight. Our culture, our democracy, our "decadent" way of life started the fight. Now we have a neighbor lobbing Maletov cocktails over the fence. We have two choices, endure the firebombs, or go next door and end it. If we stay in our yard, eventually somebody we love is going to get killed. If we go next door, at the least the fight is in his yard, collateral damage is limited to his loved ones, not ours.
We do not have the choice to fight or not to fight. The fight is upon us. The question is how best to end the fight. Retreating into isolationism will do nothing more than bring the battle into our back yard. Of course noboday "wants" war. War is ugly business and must always be the last resort. By the same token, appeasement never, ever works. All it does is embolden the evil forces that wish us harm.
Submitted by Ayesha Haqqiqa on December 6, 2024 - 8:50pm.
That is to work with moderate/progressive people in the areas where the terrorists appear to thrive. Sufi teachers and leaders have been speaking out for tolerance for quite a while now; perhaps you are familiar with what happened in Qom, Iran; how the Sufi shrine was destroyed by the government in an attempt to stop Sufis spreading their message of tolerance (Sufis protested the destruction peacefully, btw). It would be refreshing to see our government supporting, if only verbally, those moderate/progressive Muslims who wish terrorism of all kinds to come to an end.
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:38pm.
although i agree with most of wat u say.. i do disagree with your statement, about hurting their loved ones.. no one's loved ones should die in the first place... a terrorists family shouldnt be killed just because he is a terrorist.... they created no harm toward anyone.. it's like a convict attacking and killing a judges wife and kids.. the judge has no right to kill his family... it's like wat ghandi said : " An eye for and eye, will make the whole world blind".
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:35pm.
we shouldnt be terrorizing terrorists, those terrorists will die at some point and forgotten. wat we should do, is influence young muslims not to get involved in those kinds of things, and then we will have less enemies, actually maybe we shouldnt, cuz most ppl outside the U.S. hate this country. wat we should do ... is get ppl in side those countries, like muslim clerics, and politicians to start programs to talk to these young muslims, and see their thoughts, and try to change them, (if their thoughts are radical).
Submitted by Ayesha Haqqiqa on December 6, 2024 - 9:01pm.
I am appalled when I read articles saying we have only a handful of government officials who read Arabic. How much do these people know about Islamic culture? Do we have any government program in place where people literally try to immerse themselves in a culture so that they can look at the world situation from a different viewpoint? This doesn't mean that they have to agree with that viewpoint, but it does help in understanding where another person is coming from--and also in determining what that person might do next.
Avesha, I know of no program, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
I am surrounded by people who immerse themselves in others cultures in order to better understand them, and it is fascinating to learn about them - I am learning more of the political side, but put in a historical context, it is very helpful. There are many in this country that are schooled on other cultures. I think they shy away from government for obvious reasons, one being fear. Just look at what other posters are saying about how hard it is to be in the political field...
So I don't know...yeah, I agree, we need to be better aware of things. I must say that it starts with our media... the amount of international news/journals that I read and have access to is amazing - something that I would never have if I wasn't a student (even if I'm an older one). Our media for some reason fails to present the international view of much, and I find that very sad, not to mention troubling.
Submitted by Ayesha Haqqiqa on December 8, 2024 - 7:00pm.
The way to get out of the mess we're in (economically and overseas) is to come up with new technology that will make us energy independent. The world will come flocking to our door to gain access to this technology, and we'll be able to lessen our trade deficit.
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:31pm.
ending our independance from oil ,and fighting terrorism (in my opinion) are two seperate things.. we need to be more oil independant so we wont be a puppet of other oil countries, most nations with oil dont fund terrorism, though some ( i must admit) do... like saudia arabia, iran, and other countries.. we must deal with them vigorously, but not in a war type manner.
Upon martyrdom, suicide bomber's families get money (from $2000 to $20,000). Stopping this insane behavior means we need to eliminate the financial incentive. Parents globally need to be more involved with the children's lives, so the way to stop suicide bombers is to start making parents responsible for their children's actions. Innocent people are being killed every day by these fanatics, so what could work would be killing the families of those who commit mass violence against an innocent public. This means there needs to be a strong criminal justice system with CSI capabilities. People in high risk areas should be implanted with RFID tags to make identifying bombers more easily. Whoever doesn't comply with this law gets jailed.
It's a harsh reality we face, so harsh steps need to be taken. We can't reason this behavior away. While understanding the interdependence between economics, education, religion and social issues and how it can lead to nihilistic fanaticism should be pursued, using only these means will take too long, which is why the fiercer path is also the quicker path.
Submitted by souman5 on February 9, 2024 - 7:26pm.
to actually get rid of terrorism, it must have all nations working together and hunting the terrorists down... another thing we must do as a nation, is to stop making ourselves so hated in the world. the iraq war only provoked more ppl to be suicided bombers. in other words, the iraq and afgahnistan war, (both which i support) allowed terrorists to convince ppl into going and fighting our troops, and other nations' troops. we must rely more of diplomacy and economic relations than war, cuz even though war does have some good results, most are bad, including the increase in recruits for terrorism. we must also put pressure on saudia arabia because it funds a lot of the sunni insurgents around the world. All these and more, can help fight and hopefully end terrorism, and wahabism. These ppl give islam and muslims a wrong name.. and i am appalled (as a muslim) when i hear ppl making fun of islam because of those few ppl who are insane and think they can blow themselves up , and kill our troops, and innocent women and children.
I completely agree. There is no easy answer. Some are fed so much propaganda from birth that Islamic radicals are inevitable. We need to fight a battle of beliefs against terrorists and it needs to be won with ideas. Only by stomping out the creators of Islamic radicals can we have a hope of stopping them.
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:10pm.
They are radical because they already know the planet is on fire as the flame is directly under them! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:08pm.
The world process is under consideration by the wizards as we speak. Home based government work with energy generated with the home too save trillions without taking away from special interests while crushing enviornmental destruction. Replacing burn engines with non-combustion electric engines that save lives at only 45 mph. All the people need realize is that their computer at home will finally give them what it was supposed to give them in the mid 70's. The trillions are what will now pay for free healthcare, online education and more without effecting special interest as we will still have cars just no gas in them, no more police state and most of all no more crime with new positive I.D. cards. Then all can get union paying jobs building the new cities as our planet is burning up and we must cover our heads quickly! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:24pm.
Heck if I knew otherwise I wouldnt call them wizards!!!! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:27pm.
Got your mind off the terrorism programming for a second!!!! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:30pm.
Heck! We don't even know who was behind 911 and have not been hit by them, it, them, those, aliens or whomever since! Trillions I say trillions in building the propoganda machine too build a police state when all I need is a new identification card? How much is this gonna cost me when you are done figuring it out? - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by Earn Snyder on February 9, 2024 - 8:34pm.
Cash is the root of all evil, once it liquifies it cannot be tracked. Because of this we cannot finger those final links we need to identify the true criminals behind the crimes? So it seems obvious we remove cash from those regions where marshall law must be implemented, using our new social security cards (that cost 5¢ per citizen too make) for everything until law and order is achieved so that the criminals cannot move or function within the society. Then after law and order is in place bring on the evil again! Cash for everyone! With a tip for the good citizens that helped flush out the criminals! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Submitted by demablogue on February 18, 2024 - 3:13am.
Is to give everyone a real voice in government.
The neoconservatives have the equation wrong: they think it is necessary to destroy terrorism in order to make room for democracy; they also believe that terrorism is the result of a wish to destroy democracy and freedom.
These attitudes are completely wrong. Understood properly, terrorism and gang and militia violence are symptoms of something else. That something else is almost in every case some combination of poverty and lack of representation in government. Therefore, true democracy will cure the impulse to terrorism.
If someone is sitting on my head, and it begins to feel painful, the solution is not to take painkillers as a way of making it possible to get my head out. This is backwards. The solution is to get my head out first.
If people are committing acts of violence, it is because they want something. The solution is to give them what they want, and the violence will stop.
In many cases, it is not possible to give everybody what they want. However, people are much more willing to swallow being denied what they want, if they had a hand in the decision making process, if they were a party to the compromise. In other words, if they were fairly represented by the decision-making body.
Hezbollah is blockading Beirut because the Shia are not fairly represented in Lebanese Politics. Leftists protest in America because their views are completely shut out of the two-party system currently in place. Palestinians commit suicide bombings because they have no power to influence matters through political means—they have no vote over the Israeli government which sends tanks to bulldoze their homes by the thousands, they have no legal recourse over the thousands of roadblocks and curfews imposed on them. African-Americans commit acts of violence because their communities are poorly represented in government, and lacking adequate housing, education, and healthcare. The voices of the poor African-Americans, like those whose lives were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, are not heard in the halls of government. None of their grievances are taken into consideration. They are not represented; our so-called “Democracy” doesn’t include them, just as Lebanese “Democracy” doesn’t include the voices of the Shia, and Israeli “Democracy” doesn’t include the voices of the Palestinians.
None of what I am writing here is an excuse for violence; it is an attempt to understand that violence is a sign of despair, a sign of lack of power.
Large groups of terrorist networks, like al-Qaeda, grow on the fertile soil of discontent. The Arab world is sick of being invaded, occupied, having its wealth stolen from it by powerful Western corporations. In other words, people in the Arab world are sick of not having power, sick of not being represented in the halls of power. The solution, to end all of the violence and terrorism, is to allow them representation, pure and simple. That means democracy on a global scale—in other words, the granting to nations the right not to be occupied by other nations, and the right to own their own resources.
All of the following statements are false:
1. Arabs and Muslims hate freedom and democracy.
2. The primary source of their hatred for us is our western decadence.
3. Arabs/muslims are incapable of democracy
The truth is, what people over there want is to be left alone economically, and not to have military bases and occupations on their lands. Demagogues over there use rhetoric about Western Decadence, etc., to stir up the masses--but the real cause of hatred is military occupation, military bases, unquestioning support of israel in its brutal denial of human rights, hypocrisy about claiming to promote democracy while stifling independence movements (as in latin america, the US has long supported right-wing dictatorships in the middle east over genuine popular movements), etc.
So if we really want to end terrorism, we have to engage in a more thorough understanding of the region and the concerns of its people.
Allowing all voices to be heard, all peoples to be party to decision-making, all grievances to be aired and taken seriously by those in power, is the only way to put an end to violence. When people are able to sit down at a table together, and feel that their wishes carry some political weight, they have no need for violence, and they will renounce it.
This is the only way to end terrorism. Anybody who tells you anything different is either ignorant of human nature, power hungry for their own political group, or trying to sell arms or petroleum.
The fact that this, the only real solution to terrorism, is never discussed in America, is proof that those in power have no desire whatsoever to end terrorism—--because their political careers, built on fighting against terrorism and supporting the arms industry, would end.
Education is the only real and long term solution to terrorism ..
Educating the young to understand the existence of the four fingers of life : Religion, Politics, Wealth & Poverty, and how to manage their lives to do the best for themselves and humankind in all four areas ..
It's ignorance of what makes oneself and others tick - that creates an easy convert to terrorism - a willing student for those who have lost their own way and like Judas goats - want to lead others down the same dead end ..
As long as young Muslims are exposed to these Judas goat preachers of hate, terrorism will be taught and practiced, only the True Believers and Members of The Muslim Faith, can save their children from these who would make them murderers of men, women and children of all Nationalities and Faiths.
Only Muslims can free the world of terrorism committed in the name of their faith.
The CIA should never have created Militant Islamic Extremists in the first place and we wouldnt be dealing with it. The ONLY way to make peace is to stop supporting dicatators, stop the black ops, stop digging our dirty fingers in their economies and governments, and get the hell out of their lands. That's how you reduce the hatred towards America.
Submitted by billkahler on July 17, 2024 - 7:09am.
War does not work anymore! Love in the form of helping the young people in all the countries where there is no hope for a career or future. All young people in the world are idealistic as they should be or the world would never change for the better. I can not help but wondering what would have happened if we took all the money & man power that was wasted on the war and used it for positive good. We could have hired the radical segments to work on the environmental problems. These people are intelligent & educated and they need to have a cause that helps everyone. No body feels good about killing & destruction. The Jihad is anger & frustration directed at the parts of the world that are perceived as having everything. You Win peoples friendship & understanding by helping and dialog not death & destruction. People would still die in the process of helping especially at this level of conflict, However I know that this is the only way the world can be at peace.
Bill
There is not a government in the world that can stand up to our military power. On the other hand, our weapons are next to useless against jihadists. The war on terror cannot be won militarily. If we want to win, we must eliminate the conditions which feed terrorism:
1. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
2. Violence3. Unemployment
We must encourage the conditions which suppress terrorism:
1. Security
2. Democracy
3. Education
These things are what terrorists fear the most. Unfortunately no politician wants to be labeled as 'weak on terror', so they are not free to make rational decisions.
The bad news about terrorists is they have learned to use human shields. This ensures that if they are killed, the images of dead babies will recruit many new terrorists to their cause. I recall a science fiction thriller a while back with small deadly aliens that would break into many pieces when shot. The pieces would scurry off into dark corners and grow into more aliens. Of course there were trigger happy soldiers who refused to stop shooting the things. When told to stop killing the aliens indescriminately, they would say "It sounds like you don't WANT to fight them". The aliens were only defeated when a more intelligent strategy was found.
Some sobering statistics on islamic militants:
Active AlQaida members after the fall of Tora Bora: ~200. That was 1 out of 5,000,000 muslims worldwide.
Active AlQaida members today: ~10,000. That's 1 out of 100,000 muslims worldwide, or 50 times the number before the invasion of Iraq.
If only 1% of muslims joined AlQaida, there would be 1000 times as many as today, or 10,000,000 members. This is enough to threaten civilization.
Clearly there is a LOT of room for the problem to get worse. That is why it is to their advantage to draw american troops anywhere they can. That is why they kill Shi'ites. That is why they want to overthrow all arab governments. That is why the Iranian and Syrian governments fear them, and why Saddam feared them.
And that is why we need a more intelligent strategy, and we must be unified and reject the 'weak on terror' label. Should we kill terrorists when we have the chance? Yes, but only in cases where it actually makes us safer.
David,
You've omitted a crucial element when discussing the reasons for Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism - that the United States has in the past and continues to meddle in the internal affairs of other nations. Always in the name of freedom and democracy but if the truth be told the motivation for these activities is simple and clear... the corporate internationalist plundering and exploitation of the resources and peoples of other nations.
Were other nations interfering in the internal affairs of the US, exploiting our resources and people, you can be sure that some portion of the American population would rise up in rebellion, the same kind of rebellion we are witnessing in the Middle East.
If you accept this premise then the solution is obvious and evident. If we continue to allow the government of the US to set policies that serve the interests of the internationalist corporations, there WILL be consequences and we will surely get what we deserve. Remind yourself that these corporations have no loyalty to the US... only to profit and power.
respectfully,
Jack
Islamic Fundamentalism Extremism, the current model of terrorism is a world wide movement that has its’ roots in Saudi Arabia (ca 1950’s). Their apparent goal is to reestablish the Caliphate. The expendable portion of their goal is the entire Western Life style. Since the inception of their goal they have consistently attacked Western Life style elements with ever increasing violence. We in America and Europe have simply ignored the acts of aggression until 9/11. Most people believe that it is a simple matter to strike at one small segment of the many headed cancer and the issue will be resolved. Nothing is further from the truth. Like a cancer it requires a multi pronged world wide attack. Those who refuse to acknowledge the past are destined to relive it.
Please note that the actions taken by these terrorists is not solely against the US BUT ALL Western Society.
Forget that strategy stuff. This movement is about centrism, so like it or not, we must support a centrist position. In a way we give up our personal point of view to the populist point of view.
The populist I think wants isolation, borders protected from those who would bomb us, and swift and immediate penalty for those who do. I dont think the average person wants us to engage in extending our power or glory or whatever.
Populist viewpoints are simple solutions to simple problems.
While I agree with most of what you say, I'm not sure who was doing the polling of Al Quaeda's numbers before and after the Iragi invasion. Kind of hard to get good data on an organization as highly secretive as Al Quaeda.
In any case, I think you missed one important "condition" that increases Islamic extremism. That is the influence of Wahhabism and the belief that the influence of Western culture is evil and must be stopped. The idea of democracy is one of the problems, not the answer, and that is where we fail. The Fundamentalist Muslim does not want democracy. To them, democracy is chaos, the Imams are supposed to be the government. The stated policy of installing democratic governments is pretty much a declaration of war.
Thinking that all of this will "just go away" if we mind our own business is naive. The shrinking of the world by communications technology (TV, the Internet, etc) has brought our two cultures into conflict. A conflict that one side is willing to die for.
I don't have a solution, but we at least need to recognize that this is a war that will continue whether we like it or not.
cringe at the mention of al Qaeda and the Wahhabists as much as any Westerner, because in the minds of many (if not all;I cannot speak for all, only those I know)Wahhabism distorts Islam and is not following Islamic practices.
One way to fight this war is to learn about and make friends with moderate and progressive Muslims. The Sufis as a rule would fall into the progressive category;they can be Sunni, Shia, or Universal. Their organizations, called Orders, are generally international in scope, and the senior teachers I have encountered have all counseled on taking a tolerant, non-violent approach to things. Sufis in many Muslim countries are "underground"-Saudi Arabia forbids open worship by Sufis, Iran destroys Sufi centers, and in other areas Sufi shaykhs who try to build bridges and reach out to other faiths are threatened. I would like to see some support for Sufis and some dialog with some of the wonderful Sufi teachers with government officials. I believe much could be learned.
ALthough i do agree with some of wat your saying, other sections in islam can also be progressive.. not all sunnis or shias are destructive like those in iraq.
that is completly wrong... in islam it never says that the imams should rule.. and muslims are like anyone else .. they do want democracy... it's just ppl like terrorists that want to gain power and use the U.S. and a reason to start a holy war... no one wants to be ruled by a dictartor, or imam... no one wanted to be ruled by saddam and no one wants to be ruled by the saudi royal family... democracy is the best know kind of goverment in our time... and everyone wants it if they dont have it.. and those that have it .. take it for granted... the chinese and taiwanese want democracy but they know if they revolt they could end up in jail or even worse.. executed... the same with saudia arabia.. ppl wont revolt cuz they are afraid of being killed, or sent to jail for life, or being wipped.... it's these strict laws and make less and less ppl fight for independance.
"Who should rule" is actually the source of the Islamic Sunni/Shia schism.
IIRC, Sunni's believe the sucessor to Mohamed should be a chosen Caliph, whereas the Shia beleive Mohamed's son-in-law is his sucessor.
Sharia Law establishs the authority of the Imams.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
Yeow!! Let's keep Religion out of this PLEASE!! Focus on the issues please and good valid bipartisan options to resolve them!!
As a Christian, I'm ethically compelled to keep "religion" IN.
You want to start a debate on THAT????
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
Hey so am I! But let's focus on the issues! That is the Christian thing to do! People don't like holier-than thou-preaching and it's a real real turn off esp in this forum that is trying toget something done.
PLEASE don't tell me how "to be a Christian". I have a savior named Jesus Christ who does THAT.
If you continue to do so, you will REALLY get my dander up.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
Fine with me. Let's just focus on the issues at hand their resolution thereof in this plenum and leave the eternal verities aside.
I still don't think the majority of centrists want to fight terrorism overseas. We certainly don't want it here, but I am not sure the average American thinks we owe it to anyone to fight this across the world.
Indeed, it seems to me like there is simply not a lot of international support either for a military response to terrorism by the US military.
So if the populace doesnt want to extend out powers and other nations don't want us to, who does want us to and why should we do what they want vs. what the majority wants??
Contrary to what the far left would have you believe, we didn't start the fight. Our culture, our democracy, our "decadent" way of life started the fight. Now we have a neighbor lobbing Maletov cocktails over the fence. We have two choices, endure the firebombs, or go next door and end it. If we stay in our yard, eventually somebody we love is going to get killed. If we go next door, at the least the fight is in his yard, collateral damage is limited to his loved ones, not ours.
We do not have the choice to fight or not to fight. The fight is upon us. The question is how best to end the fight. Retreating into isolationism will do nothing more than bring the battle into our back yard. Of course noboday "wants" war. War is ugly business and must always be the last resort. By the same token, appeasement never, ever works. All it does is embolden the evil forces that wish us harm.
That is to work with moderate/progressive people in the areas where the terrorists appear to thrive. Sufi teachers and leaders have been speaking out for tolerance for quite a while now; perhaps you are familiar with what happened in Qom, Iran; how the Sufi shrine was destroyed by the government in an attempt to stop Sufis spreading their message of tolerance (Sufis protested the destruction peacefully, btw). It would be refreshing to see our government supporting, if only verbally, those moderate/progressive Muslims who wish terrorism of all kinds to come to an end.
Yes, indeed it would Avesha. :)
although i agree with most of wat u say.. i do disagree with your statement, about hurting their loved ones.. no one's loved ones should die in the first place... a terrorists family shouldnt be killed just because he is a terrorist.... they created no harm toward anyone.. it's like a convict attacking and killing a judges wife and kids.. the judge has no right to kill his family... it's like wat ghandi said : " An eye for and eye, will make the whole world blind".
If we can not terrorize the terrorist, their security is assured.
Bill"for what we are together"
we shouldnt be terrorizing terrorists, those terrorists will die at some point and forgotten. wat we should do, is influence young muslims not to get involved in those kinds of things, and then we will have less enemies, actually maybe we shouldnt, cuz most ppl outside the U.S. hate this country. wat we should do ... is get ppl in side those countries, like muslim clerics, and politicians to start programs to talk to these young muslims, and see their thoughts, and try to change them, (if their thoughts are radical).
I am appalled when I read articles saying we have only a handful of government officials who read Arabic. How much do these people know about Islamic culture? Do we have any government program in place where people literally try to immerse themselves in a culture so that they can look at the world situation from a different viewpoint? This doesn't mean that they have to agree with that viewpoint, but it does help in understanding where another person is coming from--and also in determining what that person might do next.
Avesha, I know of no program, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
I am surrounded by people who immerse themselves in others cultures in order to better understand them, and it is fascinating to learn about them - I am learning more of the political side, but put in a historical context, it is very helpful. There are many in this country that are schooled on other cultures. I think they shy away from government for obvious reasons, one being fear. Just look at what other posters are saying about how hard it is to be in the political field...
So I don't know...yeah, I agree, we need to be better aware of things. I must say that it starts with our media... the amount of international news/journals that I read and have access to is amazing - something that I would never have if I wasn't a student (even if I'm an older one). Our media for some reason fails to present the international view of much, and I find that very sad, not to mention troubling.
-Keely
That's actually a good idea.
Evangelist Perry Stone mentioned the growing danger of Maqtada Al_Sadr and his Mahdi Army nearly two years ago when no one had heard of them.
NOW, they are a big thorn in the side of the Iraqi government.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
The battle against terrorism must focus on taking away the advantage of the oil producing nations. Fighting terrorism starts with energy independence.
The way to get out of the mess we're in (economically and overseas) is to come up with new technology that will make us energy independent. The world will come flocking to our door to gain access to this technology, and we'll be able to lessen our trade deficit.
ending our independance from oil ,and fighting terrorism (in my opinion) are two seperate things.. we need to be more oil independant so we wont be a puppet of other oil countries, most nations with oil dont fund terrorism, though some ( i must admit) do... like saudia arabia, iran, and other countries.. we must deal with them vigorously, but not in a war type manner.
Upon martyrdom, suicide bomber's families get money (from $2000 to $20,000). Stopping this insane behavior means we need to eliminate the financial incentive. Parents globally need to be more involved with the children's lives, so the way to stop suicide bombers is to start making parents responsible for their children's actions. Innocent people are being killed every day by these fanatics, so what could work would be killing the families of those who commit mass violence against an innocent public. This means there needs to be a strong criminal justice system with CSI capabilities. People in high risk areas should be implanted with RFID tags to make identifying bombers more easily. Whoever doesn't comply with this law gets jailed.
It's a harsh reality we face, so harsh steps need to be taken. We can't reason this behavior away. While understanding the interdependence between economics, education, religion and social issues and how it can lead to nihilistic fanaticism should be pursued, using only these means will take too long, which is why the fiercer path is also the quicker path.
I hardly think that killing the families will stop more killing. Such a policy would only beget more killing.
to actually get rid of terrorism, it must have all nations working together and hunting the terrorists down... another thing we must do as a nation, is to stop making ourselves so hated in the world. the iraq war only provoked more ppl to be suicided bombers. in other words, the iraq and afgahnistan war, (both which i support) allowed terrorists to convince ppl into going and fighting our troops, and other nations' troops. we must rely more of diplomacy and economic relations than war, cuz even though war does have some good results, most are bad, including the increase in recruits for terrorism. we must also put pressure on saudia arabia because it funds a lot of the sunni insurgents around the world. All these and more, can help fight and hopefully end terrorism, and wahabism. These ppl give islam and muslims a wrong name.. and i am appalled (as a muslim) when i hear ppl making fun of islam because of those few ppl who are insane and think they can blow themselves up , and kill our troops, and innocent women and children.
To simply start, Islamic radicals have to be moderatered.
Considering how polarized THIS nation is, I don't see that happening soon.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
I completely agree. There is no easy answer. Some are fed so much propaganda from birth that Islamic radicals are inevitable. We need to fight a battle of beliefs against terrorists and it needs to be won with ideas. Only by stomping out the creators of Islamic radicals can we have a hope of stopping them.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/01/17/warwithin.amanpour/
They are radical because they already know the planet is on fire as the flame is directly under them! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
The world process is under consideration by the wizards as we speak. Home based government work with energy generated with the home too save trillions without taking away from special interests while crushing enviornmental destruction. Replacing burn engines with non-combustion electric engines that save lives at only 45 mph. All the people need realize is that their computer at home will finally give them what it was supposed to give them in the mid 70's. The trillions are what will now pay for free healthcare, online education and more without effecting special interest as we will still have cars just no gas in them, no more police state and most of all no more crime with new positive I.D. cards. Then all can get union paying jobs building the new cities as our planet is burning up and we must cover our heads quickly! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Who are the "wizards"?
Your posts continue to make ABSOLUTELY no sense.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
Heck if I knew otherwise I wouldnt call them wizards!!!! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Got your mind off the terrorism programming for a second!!!! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Heck! We don't even know who was behind 911 and have not been hit by them, it, them, those, aliens or whomever since! Trillions I say trillions in building the propoganda machine too build a police state when all I need is a new identification card? How much is this gonna cost me when you are done figuring it out? - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
Cash is the root of all evil, once it liquifies it cannot be tracked. Because of this we cannot finger those final links we need to identify the true criminals behind the crimes? So it seems obvious we remove cash from those regions where marshall law must be implemented, using our new social security cards (that cost 5¢ per citizen too make) for everything until law and order is achieved so that the criminals cannot move or function within the society. Then after law and order is in place bring on the evil again! Cash for everyone! With a tip for the good citizens that helped flush out the criminals! - Earn Snyder
Modern Progressive Independent
IM: earnsnyder@yahoo.com
For more policies visit www.appyp.com/fix_main.html
It's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.
You certainly TRY to be quite a wordsmith, Earn Snyder.
Too bad your not sucessful.
http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/
Is to give everyone a real voice in government.
The neoconservatives have the equation wrong: they think it is necessary to destroy terrorism in order to make room for democracy; they also believe that terrorism is the result of a wish to destroy democracy and freedom.
These attitudes are completely wrong. Understood properly, terrorism and gang and militia violence are symptoms of something else. That something else is almost in every case some combination of poverty and lack of representation in government. Therefore, true democracy will cure the impulse to terrorism.
If someone is sitting on my head, and it begins to feel painful, the solution is not to take painkillers as a way of making it possible to get my head out. This is backwards. The solution is to get my head out first.
If people are committing acts of violence, it is because they want something. The solution is to give them what they want, and the violence will stop.
In many cases, it is not possible to give everybody what they want. However, people are much more willing to swallow being denied what they want, if they had a hand in the decision making process, if they were a party to the compromise. In other words, if they were fairly represented by the decision-making body.
Hezbollah is blockading Beirut because the Shia are not fairly represented in Lebanese Politics. Leftists protest in America because their views are completely shut out of the two-party system currently in place. Palestinians commit suicide bombings because they have no power to influence matters through political means—they have no vote over the Israeli government which sends tanks to bulldoze their homes by the thousands, they have no legal recourse over the thousands of roadblocks and curfews imposed on them. African-Americans commit acts of violence because their communities are poorly represented in government, and lacking adequate housing, education, and healthcare. The voices of the poor African-Americans, like those whose lives were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, are not heard in the halls of government. None of their grievances are taken into consideration. They are not represented; our so-called “Democracy” doesn’t include them, just as Lebanese “Democracy” doesn’t include the voices of the Shia, and Israeli “Democracy” doesn’t include the voices of the Palestinians.
None of what I am writing here is an excuse for violence; it is an attempt to understand that violence is a sign of despair, a sign of lack of power.
Large groups of terrorist networks, like al-Qaeda, grow on the fertile soil of discontent. The Arab world is sick of being invaded, occupied, having its wealth stolen from it by powerful Western corporations. In other words, people in the Arab world are sick of not having power, sick of not being represented in the halls of power. The solution, to end all of the violence and terrorism, is to allow them representation, pure and simple. That means democracy on a global scale—in other words, the granting to nations the right not to be occupied by other nations, and the right to own their own resources.
All of the following statements are false:
1. Arabs and Muslims hate freedom and democracy.
2. The primary source of their hatred for us is our western decadence.
3. Arabs/muslims are incapable of democracy
The truth is, what people over there want is to be left alone economically, and not to have military bases and occupations on their lands. Demagogues over there use rhetoric about Western Decadence, etc., to stir up the masses--but the real cause of hatred is military occupation, military bases, unquestioning support of israel in its brutal denial of human rights, hypocrisy about claiming to promote democracy while stifling independence movements (as in latin america, the US has long supported right-wing dictatorships in the middle east over genuine popular movements), etc.
So if we really want to end terrorism, we have to engage in a more thorough understanding of the region and the concerns of its people.
Allowing all voices to be heard, all peoples to be party to decision-making, all grievances to be aired and taken seriously by those in power, is the only way to put an end to violence. When people are able to sit down at a table together, and feel that their wishes carry some political weight, they have no need for violence, and they will renounce it.
This is the only way to end terrorism. Anybody who tells you anything different is either ignorant of human nature, power hungry for their own political group, or trying to sell arms or petroleum.
The fact that this, the only real solution to terrorism, is never discussed in America, is proof that those in power have no desire whatsoever to end terrorism—--because their political careers, built on fighting against terrorism and supporting the arms industry, would end.
http://demablogue.typepad.com
Education is the only real and long term solution to terrorism ..
Educating the young to understand the existence of the four fingers of life : Religion, Politics, Wealth & Poverty, and how to manage their lives to do the best for themselves and humankind in all four areas ..
It's ignorance of what makes oneself and others tick - that creates an easy convert to terrorism - a willing student for those who have lost their own way and like Judas goats - want to lead others down the same dead end ..
As long as young Muslims are exposed to these Judas goat preachers of hate, terrorism will be taught and practiced, only the True Believers and Members of The Muslim Faith, can save their children from these who would make them murderers of men, women and children of all Nationalities and Faiths.
Only Muslims can free the world of terrorism committed in the name of their faith.
popo
The CIA should never have created Militant Islamic Extremists in the first place and we wouldnt be dealing with it. The ONLY way to make peace is to stop supporting dicatators, stop the black ops, stop digging our dirty fingers in their economies and governments, and get the hell out of their lands. That's how you reduce the hatred towards America.
War does not work anymore! Love in the form of helping the young people in all the countries where there is no hope for a career or future. All young people in the world are idealistic as they should be or the world would never change for the better. I can not help but wondering what would have happened if we took all the money & man power that was wasted on the war and used it for positive good. We could have hired the radical segments to work on the environmental problems. These people are intelligent & educated and they need to have a cause that helps everyone. No body feels good about killing & destruction. The Jihad is anger & frustration directed at the parts of the world that are perceived as having everything. You Win peoples friendship & understanding by helping and dialog not death & destruction. People would still die in the process of helping especially at this level of conflict, However I know that this is the only way the world can be at peace.
Bill