Okay, I get that the US political system is in dire need of some fixing, that both the Democrapic and Repooplican parties are corrupt, and that lobby money (ie legalized bribery) buys elections. I understand that U08 wants to focus on crucial issues like terrorism and global warming. But does it have an official stance on these crucial issues? For example, what does U08 say about the War in Iraq, the nuclear threat from North Korea, and oil dependency?
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My take on the need for this forum is so that we can discuss, debate, and vote on the crucial issues. The forums are being monitored such that what goes on here will be repackaged (don't ask me how). We will get expert input about these issues at the online convention, and then we will vote on the issues. We will also get ideas from the founders about how to conduct the convention. Combine these items with our RULES and we will then have the vehicle to arrive at an official platform and the Unity08 ticket.
My personal vision of what the platform might look like can be seen at this link.
If I got it wrong, I would like to know too.
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Unity 08 will present it's candidates with an American Agenda, a series of inquiring questions on crucial issues vetted by our delegates. The candidate will respond to the questions with their platform and the delegates will then apply the online convention to nominate the person(s) and platform that the majority supports. Unity 08 is not running a party with a full slate of elective officials so there is no need for a conventional umbrella like platform for everyone to get under.
Look for the finalized Rules to confirm.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Bgood, thanks for posing your question. Bill, thanks for clarifying this issue as there seems to be a general misunderstanding about a platform. There are many posts here, my own included, where people are stumping for specific platform motions. Maybe it is just me and my interpretation that people are seeking seconds to motions that somehow will then be voted on as planks in our platform at the convention. The only platform we have is to develop an American Agenda that seeks to elicit a comprehensive response from candidates detailing how their platform makes them best suited for our support.
A favorable court ruling against the FEC conclusion, that we are a political committee, would help to clear up my confusion. If I am to understand you correctly then, the platforms come exclusively from the candidates. As I am new to this sort of activism and as this section is called platform, please excuse any miscommunication with others as it is a result of being separated from Unity08 by a common language. It would have been less confusing if this section were named, American Agenda.
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Bgood, I have a question, how do you feel about supporting a movement without a specific stance on the issues?
To join the U08 Delegate Council Online Community send an email to
u08delegatecouncil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
I keep interpreting the rules as I think they are but these matters need articulation through finalizing the rules and the Rules Committee backing a completely proper interpretation. I will be happy to shut up about it if they will.
They motions you are seeing are mostly 'you know who' trying to poke another stick in the Unity 08 eye. He knows no process has been identified by Unity 08.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
I saw your post asking for final rules. I wonder if 08 is waiting to hear about its FEC standing from the court first? Seems like a finalization of the rules now would lend more credence to our court claim that we are not a Political Committee. Maybe a rules finalization is wrapped up with this other legal issue?
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
If Unity08 had registered with the FEC as a PAC, it could have produced a political platform with which to influence the presidential and vice-presidential 2024 election. However, since Unity08 has yet to register with the FEC as a PAC, and doesn't intend to until after the 2024 primaries, until then, it can only influence the presidential and vice-presidential 2024 election with an "agenda", or risk loosing its appeal of the FEC's ruling and having to repay the loans it has received while not registered with the FEC.
So Unity08 has nothing to do with affecting the presidential and vice-presidential elections of 2024, but all about raising campaign funds. Ah! money and politics, you can't beat it.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Just like the "adversarial process" you say unity is trying to preclude there Dave. As with the adversarial process so is money, politics and influence you will never get rid of it -lets be real. But whatt you CAN do in this imperfect world is CONTAIN it so it gets back on some semblance of a track that actually addresses the Big Nation-Buster Issues of National Interest rather than the small issues of particular narrow interest.
That is what Unity is striving to do and CAN do if they play it right - be an advocate from the center on the big issues of National Interests with Issues, Candidates, and Branding. They do not preclude money in politics or adversarial politics or deal-making - that will always be there. They are actually very realistic and not pie-in-the-sky and they just want to CONTAIN the bleeding that has gone on in the last 25 or so years and start to make the deals from the center of the spectrum rather from the extremes and particular interests.
They say they do not want to become a political party. That's fine. They cannot control the future or the weather. What happens happens. But if they are half-way successful, they may have one dropped on them or one somebody else can build on or repurpose. And then we/they will adjust accordingly to the facts on the ground!
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
"Unity08 isn't going to "preclude" money in politics or adversarial politics or deal-making, so if you want to throw your money away", go ahead. Unity08 isn't going to contain anything or change anything. You know, as well as I do, John, after the primaries the debate will focus on the middle. It always has. It always will, with or without Unity08.
So when you are through dreaming and you want to actually empower the center by creating a viable political Internet 3rd party, go to The Unity Cyber Party Yahoo Group and make a difference.
ex animo
davidfarrar
The Unity Cyber Party
Yes I agree totally Dave the discussion all comes back to the middle after the primaries, but to do that the Candidates must make all sorts of hairy deals with their extreme base to allow them to go to the center. Then after the election the winning "base" cashes in their chips to the new Pez and the winning party. And the people that persist in making sure that "chip cashing-in" takes place are the PACs/Special Interests and K-Street Lobbysists. Somehow when all is said and done the middle issues of national Interest nature get cast aside or papered over. That is the way it works of DC now.
And after the election if you really look at it to get anything done you have to make a lot more deals to get that Center Consensus than you use to to 20 - 40 years ago when we had our Howard Bakers our Everett Dirksens, Tip O'neills, Bob Michaels Warren Rudmans, Phil Gramms, Ernest Hollings etc. The deals then got made but more from the center and less off this peripheral crap deal-making on the extremes and by the extremes went on. Now the extremes control the deal-making in the center and it gets harder and harder with their vast proliferation of Lobbyist/KStreet/Special Intersts in the last 20 years or so. The extremes control the terms of the debate on the deals that eventually get struck and not the center like it use to be. The new type of "consensus" we see now is much more prone to be short-term thinking, more prone to break down, and more prone to having vast ends-means disconnects in them. The people running the sho now is not the parties or the prez but the PAC and K-Street the true power in DC. That is the way it works now in DC sad to say Dave.
All I am saying Dave is if Unity can point the above out clearly and put forth some decent and legitimate Centrist Issues, Candidates and Branding (ICB!!) then I think we may have a chance at least of having these "deals" made FROM the center once again and not FROM the extremes as they now are. Unity should not (can not) realistically preclude money, politics, or deals - that would be the height of unrealism. But what they CAN do is build a force that can work from the center in doing the deals that end up made in the Center that actually reflect the National interest rather than the special particular interest. That's my hope for Unity. And that is I think what they are getting at. And That may be a realistic alternative to the present morass we are in now! They have a ways to go for sure, but they have made some pretty good (albiet fledgling) starts. I'm willing to beat the rafters for them to give them a legitimate chance. Seems like you are not. Your Choice!
3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
We agree on the problm, but not the solution. When the lobbyists and special interests come to cash in their chips after the election, it is going to take more than the signing of Peter's pledge to stop them.
K-street, the lobbyists and the special interests will still be there after the election, along with a whole lot of other elected representatives from the other two parties, all rushing in to fill the vacuum where Unity08 once stood. Without a strong organization operating after the election, Unity08's centeralist agenda will be poliically discredited by those in power, which, as you know, John, they will have to do in order to justify their own bi-partisian sell out to the lobbyists and special interests. And they will succeed at this largely because there will be no voices left after the election strong enough to be heard over the voices of those in power.
However, do not be disheartened. There are plenty of Unity08 delegates who believe Untiy08 must become a powerful Internet political 3rd party in order to carry Untiy08's centerlists agenda after the election. If you would like to join a discussion group to address this issue, please go to The Unity Cyber Party Yahoo Group
ex animo
davidfarrar
The Unity Cyber Party
ex animo
Ka Dave I am not denying that any of that you say may happen. It is very likely if Unity does not do their do dilegence right on the issues and forming some decent coalitions with bipartisan centrist groups in the next 6 to 9 months (ICB). But even under the worst case scenarios it would be much better than what you get now or likely to get in the deal making that will go on with the other 2 parties. With Unity the deals will be made from the center if the proper centrist spadework is done (and it CAN be done!!) Otherwise we are left with 2 parties that will be Earmark-Heaven and special interests on the extremes in command catering to the cashing in of the bases and all the deal making that will go on to get a Consensus on anything. The national interest will get short-shrift once again!
But Deal-making from the Center and minimizing the influence of the 2 Parties bases extremists can only occur if Unity starts a concerted effort to reach out now with some good feelers to the many Centrists entitiesout there such as the Blue Dog Democrats, The Tuesday Group Repubs, the Concord Coalitions, and the host of other Bipartisan Centrist entities yearning to get some leadership and ideas from the Center that their 2 Parties have let twist in the wind in the last 2 decades. Unity can do that I think MUCH more and better than you and your hearty "band" of Cybernauts are set up to do there Dave IMHO. I agree Unity is still at the "Smile and a Shoe Shine" stage (until they really get cracking on ICB) for sure but that is more than I think you have mustered there dude or likely to!
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
I never preceived Unity 08 as have the intent to be a centerist lobbying group. The objective as I see it is to elect a President that can bring and sustain civil deliberation in the legislative bodies, in the government branches, and in foriegn relations. That force comes from personality and respect across a broad enough spectrum of our society to build consensus. "Consensus" issues are much more to the point than "centerist" issues though centerist would always be in a consensus. A consensus reaches beyond a center by negotiation until an issue is effectively resolved. We want a concensus that builds from the center; that is, our President will start in the center and negotiate to a consensus as far in any direction that it takes. Unity 08 will not be needed to do that, it must eminate entirely from the Oval Office. It is a very influential nudge...not a revolution.
It is the quality of personality that we are seeking if the Unity 08 mission is to succeed. The only benefit we can derive by having our candidates discuss issues is to get an idea of how they will negotiate a consensus. Their own platforms will give us a very good idea if we ask the right questions.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Bill even nudges from the best Centrist Consensus Building Prez will need something to go to the table with when the consensus dealmaking does ensue. The forces on the extremes and in the 2 Parties' Bases are daunting and will remain so until Unity can present some legitimate credible ICBs. Even then with the best candidate with the most sterling of characters and expertise a President that will start in the center and be able to produce is highly unlikely unless he has a pretty well developed coalation around certain key issues able to withstand the withering attacks from the parties and their vested special interets. Consensus is all good and fine before and during an election but there will have to be something the Candidate can get his teeth into that represents a negotiating base and strategy for consensus and deal-making from the center.
I think if we present a range of good well thought out centrist options on certain key nation-busting issues of the day, we can attract the right candidate and give him a base coalition of centrist bipartisan forces to work from in getting elected and above all in governing FROM the Center so as to minimize the deal-making with the narrow intersts and the extremes to get the moderate centrist agenda enacted. June 2024 will be too late to lay the bricks and start tilling the soil. That effort must start quick in the next 3 to 5 months or so or any "nudges" by the best personalities and the biggest bucks will matter not arrayed against the withering campaigns about to be mounted against such an effort by Both parties. We need legit ICBs and by years end if at all possible to get this show on the road here at Unity and if we want any legit chance this go-around!
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
I keep hearing that an internet third party will enable us to compete. No, not now, and not tomorrow. It is not nearly enough. It is Cyber fantasy! While the internet may be a good place to start, it is not an end in itself. Until there is a viable strategy, it is like chasing windmills to keep pitching the same line expecting that others will suddenly see the light and merely join for the sake of joining.
Wouldn't it be better to help shape a new strategy with our common ground? Right now we are a dim flickering light in the dark of night during a storm. Let's develop a plan together to come out of the dark cyber world with a real life agenda that shakes off the outside obstacles. While you see our centrist position as a negative characteristic of our position, I see it quite differently. We want the other parties to start moving to the center after their deals have been made with their bases. We want them to move closer to the center and try to discredit us. We can only expose them once the pretenders are on our home turf.
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Creating a powerful Internet 3rd party to carry forward the political ground work of Unity08 after the 2024 election is essential if you intend to have a "...bold and specific lobbyist elimination/curtailment plan to expose the very heart of their extreme base agendas while they are in our home court."
Under the design of a successful Internet 3rd party will be real voters, with real political wants, needs and aspirations. Street by street, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state, four national divisions, and finally the National Cyber Party Council will be organized online. Each division will have elected its one representative to the next party division above it, until the National Executive Committee is formed with five members. And although all business will be conducted online, twice a year, each county division will meet to physically authenticate the actions taken online.
In addition, since communication between party members will be much more efficient, local social/political meetings will be organized by party representative of each division any time the need arises.
The key to the NCP arriving at a centralist political platform will be inherent in the accurate reflection of the established political platforms, cyberly voted upon and moved up through party divisions until reaching the National Executive Committee, whereby becoming the party's national political platform. Using the power of the Internet, the NCP will reflect true democratic values, originating from where all true political values in a democratic society should originate from, the People.
ex animo
davidfarrar
The internet "crowd" only consists of a minority of the total vote power. Generally speaking, it's a younger group, which means it consists predominantly of the 18-25 crowd. This is also the group that votes the least. In the 2024 election they consistuted only 9% of the total votes cast, which means that the overwhelming majority of voters are not "net friendly."
For those in the young demographic, this means that your parents, aunts, uncles and and grandparents are not going to "log on" to do politics anytime soon. They are going to know what they know from TV and mainstream media. The "internet thing" isn't something they quite trust. We'll have to wait decades for the time in which the majority of voters are comfortable with the online world the way we are. It is what it is. Promoting the idea of online democracy isn't going to be very useful to people who are closed to the idea to begin with.
Though we have a decent start here, it'll still come down to being on our feet and in the street; that is, we'll need to gather a LOT more people through ways other than the internet. I think what we are doing here is going to serve as a pretty good focus group, but there will need to be a lot more non-internet awareness to bring the effort far enough to the front that it becomes a household name. And this we WILL have to do in order to beat the 15% poll barrier to make the televised debates.
In the end, the formation of a successful 3rd party/alternate candidacy is NOT a technology problem. It is, and always will be, a cooperation problem, and for the time being, a money problem.
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
AGENDA will win in 2024 not Candidates, whoever comes to the table in time WITH AN AGENDA That will Clearly, Eliminates Gridlock, Partisanship and Pandering To Special Interests .. AND A TICKET PEOPLE FEEL THEY CAN TRUST TO GET IT DONE ... will win The White House and Have Leverage in the Congress !!
Y'all know that if you've done your homework ..
And yes - my plan will give UNITY08 that edge if it makes the right moves in time !!
popo
ps and yes David, go to www.america-21stcentury.com scroll to Pete's Plan, study it with an open mind and the fact that we are talking about WHAT CAN BE - NOT WHAT IS, this is survival of our chosen way of life we are talking about - not "something that would be nice to have" !!
pps ; while you're in my blog - check the posting "AMERICA'S PLACE IN THE WORLD" dated August 13th, you should find it "inspirational" !!
I think the AGENDA you describe will be the main points of every candidate's campaign since it is what over 70% of the electorate wants to happen. The weight is on who can actually do it. The R's and D's are not the least likely though certainly not likely to deliver. The least likely is an independent that can not and does not hold sway with the public and the legislator's from day one. History tells me that personality and integrity are the only properties that have done that. They are few and far between so the real choices are very few, and few indeed if Colin Powell is out of the picture.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
The Agenda I propose is unique in that - before the Elections of 2024 ..
Phase #1 is designed to Fix the system that gave birth to our most critical issues !!
Phase #2 is designed to Insure proper prioritizing of actions based on Net Affect & Urgency !!
In short - replacing Political Expediency and Correctness with Common Sense, Sound Planning and Effective Operations !!
The criteria employed in developing the plan ..
A Government of the People - By The People and For Te People - WAS DOING GREAT - until it was High Jacked by Politicians with agenda's of their own ..
Defects in the System and Public Apathy - have allowed them to turn it into a Huge Cash Cow for those in power and their buddies on the outside, they will not give up this gravy train without a fight ..
The fight I propose to give them involves establishing a COALITION OF POTENT PUBLIC FORCES INCLUDING THE VFW, NTU (National Taxpayers Union) 500,000 Members) & OTHERS, With UNITY08 - To Co-sponsor the implementation of my proposed agenda ..
We will Identify To Americans and The World - The Defects In Our Political System That Allowed Corrupt Politicians to all but destroy a great society : we will name names and deeds - we will seek court action to cancel pensions and seek other forms of retribution WE WILL PLAY HARDBALL TO GET THIS JOB DONE ..
Why am I so passionate about it - because these insiders have made fools of all of us - not just you and I, but decent people who ran for office with the idea of doing good things for America - only to find out the game is rigged - the power brokers on both sides of the aisle and their big money backers on the outside - make the rules !!
It's TIME TO GET BUMPER STICKERS WITH THE UNITY08 LOGO " ENOUGH'S ENOUGH - I'm Not Taking It Anymore" !!
click on unity08.com
popo
This is a crucial topic; thanks bgood26 for starting it.
The following is my attempt to extract and summarize the main issues in a logical and objective manner to facilitate our ongoing conversations. I hope it’s helpful. Note that I’ve also interjected some of my own thoughts in the summary.
Our main focus appears to be on answering this question: What’s the best way Unity08 can influence the upcoming elections within the current corrupt political system?
Answering this question raises a number of critical issues and presents various strategies and tactics.
We all appear to agree that U08 should focus on building a platform, plank-by-plank, though formal proposals and Delegate votes via open, fair, transparent processes
Phil_W argues (at http://unity08.com/node/1933) that we should focus on developing a “Unity Ticket”, aka “American Agenda,” which offers a centrist perspective (i.e., no partisan agendas) on key issues, be used to establish governing priorities that promote the general welfare of the American people. John Milligan agrees and added that it should provide a framework for prioritizing and syncing our "Ougta Dos" with our "Can Dos" and governing from the Center.
Phil_W would like the ticket/agenda to include a clear description of what we at U08 believe, as well as incorporate discussions and Delegate votes on the ShoutBox forums, and be strong enough to influence people to act to make it happen. He trusts that the U08 Founders would use their best judgment about how to develop a platform/agenda and carry it forward based on Delegate votes once there is a clear roadmap of where we want to go.
Here are the main issues:
Issue 1A: Is Unity08 open, fair and transparent enough?
davidfarrar isn’t as trusting. He points out that the current U08 model doesn’t give Delegates the power to choose the issue and solutions. He presents several things that make him question the motives and integrity of the U08 “owners” / “political bosses” who, he argues, have special privileges when it comes to the most important aspect of what U08.
For examples of his concern, he stated that “the Rules Committee members were appointed, not elected, nor has any attempt been made to fill at least one or two positions directly from the delegate body. It is the Rules Committee, you'll remember, that will be the final arbiters in any nomination procedure dispute, along with the "Director", for what that's worth. …In addition, …the Chairwoman and Vice-Chairman of the Rules Committee are both registered lobbyists and have heavily contributed to Unity08. …And even though Unity08 is not actually a FEC registered PAC, this hasn't stopped Mr. Roth from implying that it is, See: Party, or No?” He demands the process be more open, fair and transparent.
Issue 1B: How will Unity08 develop and present an American Agenda?
Bill713 stated that we will present an American Agenda to candidates as a series of inquiring questions on crucial issues vetted by our delegates. The candidate will respond to the questions about their platform and the delegates will nominate the person(s) and platform that the majority supports. Since U08 is not running a party with a full slate of elective officials, there’s no need for a conventional umbrella like platform for everyone to get under.
Phil_W pointed out that many people in the forums are proposing specific planks for the U08 platform, i.e., the American Agenda. Bill713 indicated that the Rules Committee still needs to articulate how the process of plank proposals and selections will be carried out (e.g., though motions, seconds and votes). Phil wondered if U08 is waiting to hear about its FEC standing from the court before it finalizes the rules.
Issue 1C: What should the American Agenda contain?
popo offered “Pete’s Plan for Political Reform” as a model for the U08 American Agenda. It presents two steps to be done before the elections: (1) Neutralize the Congressional elite who oppose change and transparency and (2) Secure written pledges from all candidates for office (White House & Congress) since “it is self evident from recorded history that the oral promises of both politicians & their political parties, cannot be trusted.”
Bill713 replied that the what’s proposed in Pete’s Plan “will be the main points of every candidate's campaign since it is what over 70% of the electorate wants to happen. The weight is on who can actually do it. The R's and D's are …certainly not likely to deliver.”
popo responded by saying “The fight I propose to give them involves establishing a coalition of potent public forces including the VFW, NTU (National Taxpayers Union) 500,000 Members) & others with UNITY08 - to co-sponsor the implementation of my proposed agenda”, which “will Identify to Americans and the world - the defects in our political system that allowed corrupt politicians to all but destroy a great society.”
Issue 1D: How should Unity08 handle the money-politics-influence connection?
davidfarrar noted that if Unity08 had registered with the FEC as a PAC, “it could have produced a political platform with which to influence the presidential and vice-presidential 2024 election. But since it hasn’t registered and doesn't intend to until after the 2024 primaries, it can only influence the presidential and vice-presidential 2024 election with an ‘agenda’, or risk loosing its appeal of the FEC's ruling and having to repay the loans it has received while not registered with the FEC.” To him, it seems U08 is “all about raising campaign funds.”
John Milligan responded by saying that we will never get rid of the money-politics-influence connection since we’re involved in an adversarial process, but we can contain misuse by using our campaign funds to advocate from the center on the big issues of national interests with “Issues, Candidates, and Branding.”
davidfarrar replied that Unity08 isn't going to contain anything or change anything since, after the primaries, the debate will focus on the middle with or without Unity08. His solution is a third party (discussed later).
John Milligan agreed with David that “the discussion all comes back to the middle after the primaries, but to do that the Candidates must make all sorts of hairy deals with their extreme base to allow them to go to the center. Then after the election the winning ‘base’ cashes in their chips to the new Prez and the winning party. And the people that persist in making sure that ‘chip cashing-in’ takes place are the PACs/Special Interests and K-Street Lobbysists. Somehow when all is said and done the middle issues of national Interest nature get cast aside or papered over. That is the way it works of DC now.” And, these days, it continues after the election, and “the extremes control the terms of the debate on the deals that eventually get struck.”
John wants U08 to publicize how the current system is broken and put forth some decent and legitimate centrist issues, candidates and branding through “a force that can work from the center in doing the deals that end up made in the Center that actually reflect the National interest rather than the special particular interest.”
Although David and John agree on the problem, David doubts John’s approach can work because U08's “centralist agenda will be politically discredited by those in power…in order to justify their own bi-partisian sell out to the lobbyists and special interests. And they will succeed at this largely because there will be no voices left after the election strong enough to be heard over the voices of those in power.”
While acknowledging David’s concerns, John believes U08 can succeed if it does its due diligence on the right issues and forms decent coalitions with bipartisan centrist groups in the next 6 to 9 months. U08 will have to begin “a concerted effort to reach out now with some good feelers to the many Centrists entities out there such as the Blue Dog Democrats, The Tuesday Group Repubs, the Concord Coalitions, and the host of other Bipartisan Centrist entities yearning to get some leadership and ideas from the Center,” which he contends U08 can do.
Issue 1E: How can Unity08 do Centrist Consensus Building?
On the heals of the aforedescribed David-John debate, Bill713 said he never perceived U08 as a centrist lobbying group. Instead, he sees the U08 objective to be focused on “electing a President that can bring and sustain civil deliberation in the legislative bodies, in the government branches, and in foreign relations.” They way to make that happen is through “personality and respect across a broad enough spectrum of our society to build consensus.” To gain consensus, U08 candidates must present solid platforms and discuss issues intelligently; Delegates must ask them the right questions.
John Milligan responded that “even nudges from the best Centrist Consensus Building Prez will need something to go to the table with when the consensus dealmaking does ensue” which can only come from Issues, Candidates, and Branding. He suggested that U08 “present a range of good well thought out centrist options on certain key nation-busting issues of the day [in order to] attract the right candidate and give him a base coalition of centrist bipartisan forces to work from
Should U08 become a 3rd party
Phil_W is adamantly opposed to U08 being a third party, including davidfarrar’s National Cyber Party Council. Rather than a third party, Phil wants us to focus on (1) “developing a specific lobbyist elimination/curtailment plan to expose the very heart of their extreme base agendas while they are in our home court” and (2) using “a one-two combination ripping at their false centrist position while attacking their extreme base, and we bring it home with lobby reform that strikes at their very heart.”
davidfarrar, however, argues that “Creating a powerful Internet 3rd party to carry forward the political ground work of Unity08 after the 2024 election is essential if you intend to have a ‘...bold and specific lobbyist elimination/curtailment plan to expose the very heart of their extreme base agendas while they are in our home court.’
----
Following are some of my thoughts about the conversations thus far. I welcome any comments.
Item 1. Do we need a U08 third party (be it a cyber party or not)?
I contend that this decision be based solely on answering one question: What is the best way to move our American Agenda forward? If third party proponents can make a convincing case that having our own U08 ballot in the elections is the best way to do it, then so be it. Otherwise, we should focus our efforts on pressuring the Rs & Ds to change the current political system from the inside, rather than presenting our own candidates.
Personally, I see pros and cons to both sides of the argument. Having our own party could help bring our message to the forefront, and we would have a slate of candidates we can trust. The biggest negative I see is that a third party may take U08 voters away from support either of the two major parties promising to carry forward the American Agenda. But if there’s a way to guarantee that either major party U08 endorsing the American Agenda will live up to its word, such as popo’s “Pete’s Plan” attempts to do, then I would vote for U08 as being an advocacy-type organization—rather than a political party—whose sole purpose is to promote the acceptance and implementation of a rational agenda focused on transforming America into a compassionate, thoughtful/reflective, open, honest nation that tries its best to make the world a better place for all peoples, rather than catering to a wealthy influential minority as it currently does.
Based on this assessment, I suggest we resolve the following issue: Is there a realistic way to assure that candidates from other parties who promise to adopt and implement our American Agenda will do so if elected? The answer to this question would help guide us in determining the value of a U08 third party.
Item 2. What has to happen to enable U08 to build the American Agenda via open, fair, transparent processes?
David’s concerns ought to be addressed by the U08 Founders/owners, including answers to the following questions:
• Are there plans to FEC registered U08 as a PAC? If so, why?
• Why aren’t there more Delegates on the Rules Committee and how can they influence the Committee’s decisions?
• Why are registered lobbyists who have heavily contributed to Unity08 chairing the Rules Committee?
• Do the Delegates have the power to choose the issues and solutions? If not, why not?
Item 3. How will the planks to the platforms be built?
We ought to discuss Bill and Phil’s suggestions to determine how each plank of the American Agenda should be presented, how inquiries on crucial issues be asked and answered, and how our Delegates will vote on them to nominate the person(s) and platform that the majority supports.
I would also like to hear from the U08 Founders and management about their ideas on this issue.
Item 4. What should be the foundation of the American Agenda?
Some of the things we ought to resolve are:
• Should it include a way to expose/publicize to the world the serious defects in our political system as popo and John propose?
• Should it, as I proposed, be built on a rational foundation focused on transforming America into a compassionate, thoughtful/reflective, open, honest nation that tries its best to make the world a better place for all peoples?
• Should a main strategy be the development and presentation of centric Issues, Candidates, and Branding as John suggested?
Personally, I’d vote YES to all three.
Item 5. How should Unity08 handle the money-politics-influence connection?
Should we refuse campaign contributions or should we make it clear to all contributors that they will receive no special treatment or consideration (i.e., no chip cashing-in) before and after the elections?
Or, as John suggests, can we use the money to build a force that works from the center in doing the deals that end up reflecting the National interest rather than the special particular interest.
Personally, I need to know more about the pros & cons/risks & opportunities to form an opinion on this.
Item 5. Should U08 be collaborating with other grass-roots organizations?
There have been several groups, identified by John and popo, who may be worthy collaborators that will strengthen our cause. They include: Blue Dog Democrats, The Tuesday Group Repubs, the Concord Coalitions, and the host of other Bipartisan Centrist entities, as well as the VFW, National Taxpayers Union, and others.
Personally, I don’t see the harm and do see potential benefit in such collaboration, although I don’t know enough about these particular groups to say they are the right ones. I do think it’s worth exploration, however. Let’s discuss.
In closing, I reiterate my call for a more adept social media that can be integrated with the ShoutBox web site, which will enable us to discuss, evaluate, and vote on these items and others in order to develop a good process that leads to making wise decisions. We also need one or more people to organize the ShoutBox discussions on the various forum topics in a way that focuses our efforts in a sensible direction—e.g., by summarizing and organizing discussion threads as I have attempted to do here and on other topics. This is no easy task and it takes a great deal of time, so we need highly competent, trustworthy individuals who can devout considerable hours to doing it. Hence, I request that this issue also be discussed with U08 management.
Steve Beller, PhD
sbeller@nhds.com
Thanks Steve, I appreciate your objectiveness, effort, and skill. You did a great job! I think what you have articulated and done here is to partially perform what is covered in this poll item:
I agree that something along the lines of a Delegate Council would be helpful to an overall effort to organize the disparate ideas and efforts of the delegates in the Shoutbox. I think that if we wait until we have a million or more delegates, we will not be able to solidify any sort of real collective voice at convention time. Just voting our opinions is not the same thing as us being able to vote intelligently on issues where we have found agreement through a mutual give and take understanding of one another and where the issue deservedly fits in the American Agenda. We need a more organized effort to make sense and come together. If we leave it up to the founders alone, we are doomed to failure.
To me it will be revealing to see the breadth and depth of information that will soon (two weeks) be posted on this website about ballot access. I tend to agree that, as Bill contends, the FEC conclusion will not deter us from acting as a third party. I don't believe other discussions about the meaning of the FEC conclusion are quite accurate. To clarify my own position, I am not against us being a third party so much as I am against tangential discussions that divert us from exploring issues as they are presented. I need to have some trust in our direction and don't appreciate being peppered with negatives whose usefulness is misplaced when discussing issues.
I agree with the main thrust behind your summary that message organization is needed. Your summary has helped. We need to highlight the salient points in our discussions, as well as, isolate where give and take is needed in order to ascertain our collective Centrist issues and discover corresponding principles. These principles need to be foremost in all our efforts to change our broken system into one that is more compassionate, honest and makes the world a better place for all people. At home I believe that when government actively pursues policies that promote the general welfare, it will in turn make the world a better place for everyone.
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Phil and I have been calling for a more efficient and organized way to go ShoutBox forums to platform-building. We need a better way to present and evaluate proposed planks for platform-building. ShoutBox alone just doesn't cut it.
Also, a relative newcomer to U08 (I joined and became an Delegate the end of July), I had no idea a Delegate Council had even been proposed, until now. This is because there is so many forums, topics and and discussion threads on ShoutBox that it's unreasonable to expect someone to read them all to locate such relevant details. So, for example, we should have an "evergreen" (continually evolving/updated) introduction link that guides new Delegates to pertinent issues about roles and responsibilities, as well as ongoing unresolved issues (such as we're discussing here). Is there someone on U08 staff that can do this kind of thing on a regular basis (at least every few days)?
I'd like to know what solutions management is considering, what questions and concerns they have, how a decision will be made, and when a sound solution will be implemented.
Thanks.
Steve Beller, PhD
I first proposed the formation of a "Delegate Council" because I was concerned about the direction Unity08's leadership was taking. The purpose of the "Delegate Council" would have been to speak for all of the delegates, upon majority vote, on issues that needed to be addressed with the leadership of Unity08.
In its formation, I simply suggested Unity08's leadership announce their intentions to form the Delegate Council on "Shoutbox" and hold the Delegate Council membership open to every registered Unity08 delegate until it became unmanageable for an on-line deliberative body to operate effectively. In such a case, the participating members were to nominate and vote on a five member Delegate Council. Of course, there were other details to be worked out, but the important thing was clearly the need to be able to go on record, as a delegate body, to address issues that were bound to crop up from time to time that may or may not have been addressed by the leadership of Unity08 in a way that was consistent with the will of the delegate body as a whole.
What happened next, as they say, is history. But needless to say, the idea was completely ignored by the owners of Unity08 when it became apparent they were not going to be able to control the Delegate Council themselves.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Steve, it's not that I'm stubborn - I'm a realist and I've been watching this situation develop since the late 50's early sixties .. here are the facts ..
1. We need a Third Party Committed To Political & Management Reforms !!
2. Ir wont matter which of the current two parties Get the Presidency, they will join forces in one thing - to prevent major reforms involving : Transparency, Imposing of Effective Social and Economic Controls - such as, Eliminating of Earmarks & The Right To Be Courted & Seduced By Lobbyists With Deep Pockets !!
3. Prior to the Elections of 2024 - The Two Current Parties will each do everything they can to prevent us from getting on the ballot where ever they can, they did it to Perot and Nader for the same reasons - THEY ARE UNIFIED ON ONE THING - Protecting Their Power, Pay, Pensions & Perks !!
We need a Third Party Backed By A Coalition Of Peoples Organizations - THEY DARE NOT SCREW WITH, MY CHOICE FOR TWO OF THESE WAS AND IS : The VFW and The National Taxpayers Union (NTSU) and There has to be other peoples groups out there that think like we do !!
Steve, stop and think man - The System ISN'T BROKEN - IT BECAME REDUNDANT THE MOMENT WE BECAME THE LEADER OF THE WESTERN WORLD AND BENEFACTOR TO ALL THE LESS FORTUNATE IN THE WORLD !!
Until we Start Electing People with Wisdom, Dedication and Integrity - to manage our Daily Lives and our Destiny, rather than those capable of funding the best campaign ...
Until we Require our affairs be conducted embracing and enforcing sound and effective operating principles and procedures ..
NOTHING WILL CHANGE - WE WILL BECOME MORE VULNERABLE EVERY DAY !!!
Only a Plan of the type I propose - establishing legal means to be able to VOTE INTELLIGENTLY Based on Formal Resumes of All Candidates - and legal means to insure that Campaign Promises are kept ..
PROVIDES TANGIBLE MEANS OF LEVERAGING NEEDED BILLS THROUGH CONGRESS !!!
If there's any one thing I'm sure of - It's that Unless We Get Something like that in place BEFORE THE ELECTIONS - it's a crap shoot AFTER
Peter K (popo) Evans
ps plse read my last posting to "Mr., Mrs America - and Kids" www.america-21stcentury.com
So, Peter, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that U08 will not be able to be an effective influencer of other parties since they will continue they will never allow meaningful reform, even if they say they will in writing. A coalition "people's groups" including U08 is, therefore, the only way to implement radical reform in our political system by electing candidates with vetted integrity who will push reformation bills through Congress. Is that the gist?
In your scenario, is U08 a 3rd party with its own candidates and platforms, or is it a part of a coalition "People's Party" consisting of multiple grass-roots organizations with a collection of candidates and platforms brought together through focused consensus-building?
Steve Beller, PhD
If we do a good job and win electoral votes, but not a majority, we will throw the elecion to the House, which then selects a President with each state having one vote. If we win some states, we can be part of the governing coalition - and may be able to demand that our candidate be the top of the ticket (especially if we join with the GOP who would do anything to stop either Clinton or Obama). If we run Senators, we could parlay that into enough votes to insist on a bipartisan government, with our person as VP.
If we don't run House candidates and do win electoral votes, then if the Democrats keep all the states they have control of they will determine the outcome, since they are in the majority in 26 state delegations - although the new Congress will elect the President. 3 states are tied, so the Republicans control 21 state delegations currently. Of course, anything can happen in 08, especially if people are still dissatisfied about the war and are readly to throw out both parties.
Let us not miss this opportunity.
Your summary is concise and correct....one would have to do a lot of digging to put that much together.
I agree mostly in that the direct engagement of these issues by Unity 08 leadership will accomplish the most.
After our Online Chat with the Ballot Access Director yesterday, we will clearly be a Party in at least 30 states. But each state defines what that is, not the FEC. I think the FEC is mostly about the do's and don'ts of money: how it can be collected and how it can be spent. So, our campaign can stay on track whatever they do.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Since U08 is on its way to becoming a 3rd party, what does that mean about our ability to become part of a coalition party as Peter suggests? If we go that route, will the other organizations have to agree to coalesce under the U08 party banner?
Steve Beller, PhD
This message is in response to Dr. Beller's thread summation of Does U08 have an official platform? posted at: Summary and next steps Vote:FAQ
I, too, wish to thank Dr. Beller for his efforts in summarizing this particular thread discussion. However, I am still confused. According to Unity08's own literature, Opening Convention Hall, a Convention Hall should have been opened by now (Spring, 2024), creating Unity08's agenda/platform. To date, that convention hall isn't opened.
If, and when, this convention hall does open, "...it will be the place where the delegates will be able to caucus with one another by State, candidate, or issue. It is here they will vote on the issues "THEY" (my emphasis) believe are crucial for the future safety and well-being of the United States – and on the questions that should be asked the candidates on those crucial issues. It is where candidates for the nomination (and draft efforts on their behalf) will come to make their case with their own web-logs, video-on-demand to answer the questions on the crucial issues – and hopefully for candidate debates as well."
From my simple reading of the above paragraph, it is clear to me that the "DELEGATES" will be the ones deciding the "issues" and the "questions", period, through State caucus, candidates, or issues.
However, under Unity08 on the Issues we are simply told what Unity08's issues will be: "In our opinion, Crucial Issues include: Global terrorism, our national debt, our dependence on foreign oil, the emergence of India and China as strategic competitors and/or allies, nuclear proliferation, global climate change, the corruption of Washington’s lobbying system, the education of our young, the health care of all, and the disappearance of the American Dream for so many of our people.
"In our opinion — since the disintegration of the Soviet Union — our political system seems to have focused more attention on the “important issues” than the “crucial issues.” One result: The political parties have been built to address the interests of their “base” but have failed to address the realities that impact most Americans."
Who are these people? Where do they come from? Who elected these people to set the agenda/platform of Unity08?
In my opinion, nobody but duly registered delegates of Unity08, in a fair and transparent process, should set the issues and vet the questions that should become Unity08's de facto agenda/platform. To date, because the convention hall isn't opened, nor has the "American Agenda" been established by Unity08's own guidelines (Summer 2024), free from hidden outside influences, Unity08 may, indeed, represent a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but it will not represent change in the future of American politics.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Note that the Opening Convention Hall link is broken.
I think it's good that David continues his unrelenting demand for transparency by seeking a clear understanding and definition of the decision-makers and controllers of the U08 agenda/platform-building process.
Maybe it exists and I haven't noticed, but where can we see a list of all the people managing U08 operations and a description of their roles and responsibilities?
It would also be helpful to understand the relationship between Management, Delegates and Candidates in terms of the U08 agenda/platform-building process. For example, is David's assumption that the Delegates have full control over question-asking and decision-making?
Furthermore, can we have an update as to the status of the Convention Hall
Steve Beller, PhD
...but just to set the record straight: I did not say the delegates were to be given full control; over "...decision-making." Simply, as proposed by Unity08's own guidelines, the delegates were to originate the issues and the questions posed to the candidates themselves... rather than voting on issues already generated by somebody other than the delegate body itself.
Allowing such a procedure would render the results of any online voting process as meaningless as any push poll.
ex animo
davidfarrar
So, there seems to be agreement that the Delegates will do all the questioning and voting on planks/platforms/agendas/issues.
The contention is whether the management/founders should be the ones to select the planks/platforms/agendas/issues that the Delegates question and vote on, or if that selection process should be directed by the Delegates as well. Is that right?
Steve Beller, PhD
...we were supposed to start the debate over the New American Agenda this summer, but that really hasn't happened as far as I can tell. They sent out a push poll and we voted on it, but as far as actually allowing the delegates to post their issues, have them seconded and voted upon...no, I don't see that happening.
In addition, this whole issue about crucial issues versus wedge issues is just another way the ownership of Unity08 is trying to unfairly control the agenda-creating process. It should be left to the delegates to decide what is a wedge issue and what is a crucial issue, what is worthy of consideration and what is not.
Once the delegates have identified the issues, somebody will apparently provide us, the delegates with "...briefings on possible proposals on those issues from fully across the political spectrum – a non-partisan panoply of responsible views presented by qualified experts. Each of them will be asked to recommend questions they think should be asked of the candidates on the issue."
So now it seems instead of simply getting a written legal opinion of the proposed issues the delegates have proposed, we are now going to have OUR issues INTERPRETED for us, and we, now the lowly dumbed-down delegates, will get to choose from the questions these other fine people have so graciously provided to us to asked the candidates –- "...and the candidates will be expected to provide written and video answers to all those questions, to be posted in the Convention Hall website, which isn't opened yet.
Whether the candidate's' responses to these pre-arranged questions are right, wrong, brilliant, dumb or evasive, it won't matter, according to Unity08's thinking, because we delegates got to pick them -- we got to decide.
ex animo
davidfarrar
When David isn't questioning the integrity of the founders and other delegates - sarcastically, he offers intelligent input WITH WHICH I HAVE NO ARGUMENT, THAT SAID .. as the saying goes "A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with but one step" .. When I first joined UNITY08 and even Now - ALL IT OFFERED Publicly in Media Interviews was the Message of Unity & Bipartisanship : UNITYTO TO DO WHAT ?? - BIPARTISANSHIP IN WHAT SENSE - WHO, WHAT, HOW ??
David's idea of establishing a Delegate Council was sound - and I was for it, until he started questioning the integrity of the organization and decided to organize his own council outside of the organization : I DON'T WORK THAT WAY - you either work within the system you join or get out and
and start your own (which he's done) !!
I went to the April 16 meeting in DC - I had questions - got answers, based on those answers I committed to using my experience,time, talent and Blog - to help UNITY08 in its quest to "Take Back Our Country" For American People. IN MY OWN WAY ..
"MY OWN WAY" was to focus on the "known defects" I had uncovered in my investigation of the Operating Policies & Procedures of The Congress and Several Key Government Agencies, in particular - The GSA (no bid contracts), The Defense Department (Procurement Practices Designed to eliminate Small Businesses ability to compete with their Corporate friends) - The Federal Aviation Administration's contribution to the rising cost of Building, Operating and Maintaining - American Transport Aircraft !! etc etc
"Pete's Plan For Political & Management Reform" - is based on extensive investigation and first hand experience in the areas of interest and concern, IT WAS PRESENTED ON THIS WEB as a means of DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE CRITICAL CRITERIA TO BE CONSIDERED IN ANY AGENDA WE SEEK TO DEVELOP AND IMPLEMENT ..
I can assure you of this : It is the Founders Intention That The Delegates Will be the ones to establish the agenda - and whatever David, the Funders or anyone else thinks, my purpose here is to contribute information that's critical to establishing an agenda that will do the job for UNITY08 and the American People.
Peter K (Citizen - popo) Evans
Be sure to click on www.america-21stcentury.com and digest the last two postings
If I may paraphrase Peter's post: It appears David and Peter are in agreement that the Delegates do the questioning and voting leading to the establishment of our American Agenda. And you both are fond of the Delegate Counsel concept as a vehicle for doing this, although Peter contends it ought be done though U08 proper, not through a "U08 offshoot" (i.e., the Cyber party). Correct?
And the specific issues related to defective governmental operating policies and procedures that Peter identified for transformed ought to be reflected in our Agenda.
If my understanding is valid, then there is little disagreement, except for the value of a U08 offshoot party.
So, I ask David, IF the Delegate Counsel was adopted, whereby the Delegates selected, discussed and voted on the issue for our platform with complete transparency, what more would have to change in U08's direction for you to no longer see the need for the offshoot?
Steve Beller, PhD
I will not participate in any activity that's conducted outside our own vehicle - UNITY08, I go home with the party I came with - I don't switch partners UNTIL I HAVE "PROOF" THEY ARE CHEATING ON ME !!
Yes I have my own way of doing things - and I made that clear in DC and on this web, but - what I do is based on years of experience in the trenches, and to help UNITY08 and all our Delegates move in an effective and timely manner.
Steve, I suggest you may be able to get things off dead center, IF YOU CONTACT BOB ROTH about establishing an Official Delegate Council, I suggest yourself or John Milligan to serve as Chairman of that Council ..
If you will do this, we can get down to business and start building an agenda for submission to the Founders Council and to the media for Publication prior to the opening of our Convention - and our Q&A session with likely Candidates ..
If I may suggest - it may be a good idea to point out to Bob - the Trailblazers can be working to grow UNITY08, while a group of us works on developing a foundation and the building blocks for an Agenda to be offered to the Delegates for evaluation. modification, acceptance and /or rejection by majority vote..
Your observation as to what we are all seeking to create is a good beginning : we want to Establish A Governing Body in America - that is respected for its Wisdom, Dedication and Integrity - not feared because of it awsome miiitary power and lack of Competent and Decisive Leadership.
Peter (popo) Evans
Peter, as per your suggestion, I will contact Bob Roth this week about establishing an Official Delegate Council, and discuss the possibility of serving as its Chairman (or as a co-chairs with John). In the mean time, I'd like us to define its mission a bit more clearly.
As I'm beginning to see it, the Council would coordinate U08 efforts to bring together disparate voices (from within and beyond our organization) that focus collaboratively on establishing a sensible platform offering clear, intelligent solutions to the thorny issues affecting human civilization today.
It would do so in a transparent environment built on open dialogue; open minds; critical thinking; sound logic; factual research and historical knowledge; virtuous compassion; deep conversation and inquiry; scientific and mathematical scrutiny; and a sense of community and loving spirit.
I suggest that the Delegates work among themselves and with others to:
1) Identify critical issues/problems related to current domestic and international situations.
2) Discover, recommend, develop and present possible solutions/plans/models for dealing the issue, which will include different visions, goals and objectives, and strategies and tactics.
3) Discuss, compare and evaluate the proposed solutions/plans/models in a way that critically examines their details, assumptions and rationales to understand how they would affect the different groups of people.
4) Evolve (improve) the proposed solutions/plans/models based on the results of the discussions, comparisons, and evaluations.
5) Select the best alternatives through votes, which will become the American Agenda platform.
Does this make sense?
Steve Beller, PhD
STEVE we need specialized Teams - ONE TO BUILD and ONE TO EFFECTIVELY SELL AN ATTENTION GRABBING AGENDA - To The Delegate Council - To The Founders Council - To Worthy Candidates AND To All Americans of Voting Age !!
The Agenda MUST "ON ITS FACE" Clearly Afford The Opportunity To Eliminate Political Gridlock, Partisanship and Pandering To Special Interests AND REQUIRE Congress and The White House To Respond To The Will Of The People !!
The Agenda MUST Address Every Issue Of Concern To The American People - and Our Friends & Potential Friends Throughout The World - In Order Of The Net Affect Upon Our Social and Economic Welfare & Security !!
We MUST BE PREPARED To REPLACE POLICIES & PROCEDURES THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE CONTRARY TO THE BEST INTERESTS OF AMERICA AND ITS CITIZENS, WITH NEW AND BETTER WAYS TO DO THINGS .. we must be prepared to provide AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES FOR OUR IDEAS - That Will Prevail In A Court Of Common Sense & Public Opinion !!
I wish to Volunteer for The Delegate Council Team Assigned To Build And Market A New American Agenda To And For UNITY08 ..
Plse let me know ..
Pete (popo) Evan
Makes sense to me.
Steve Beller, PhD
The last time we went a round on "Delegate Council" the advocates were telling Unity 08 leadership what they should do by trying to threaten them into responding. Perhaps the Unity 08 leadership could take this opprotunity to to say what they need and want from such a delegate group and how they think it should be positioned in the overall organization. Alternatively, the leadership could say how their other communication devices will fill that need.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Perhaps it would be advisable to more clearly understand 08's perceived role for the new Marketing Director prior to engaging them in discussions about a role for a Delegate Council. Surely 08 has plans in that regard already. And if you intend to mention anything about co-chairs, maybe it ought to be a registered R & D.
Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
Amidst our discussion of whether or not U08 is, or should be a political party, I just received a general broadcast email from Doug Bailey that says we should recruit new members by telling them, among other things, that "Unity08's new approach will ... In November, elect the Unity08 Ticket to our nation's highest office."
To me, this sounds like U08 candidates will be competing for votes against other political party candidates in Nov 08, hence, we're a political party. Or am I missing something? Does that statement mean the U08 Ticket will be comprised of candidates we support from other parties ... or are they our own candidates who are not affiliated with other parties?
Furthermore, I'm unclear about the relationships between the U08 Delegates, Founders, Management, and Candidates. What are the different roles and responsibilities of each group? What decision-making powers and what perks do each group have?
I need clear answers to the questions I've posed.
And if we are to be truly transparent, it seems to me that the Delegates should be privy to the resumes, salaries, job descriptions, party contributions, and other pertinent details of our leaders, managers and candidates. Does such information exist for our review?
We also need to know the process by which decisions--such as becoming a political party and developing a particular platform--are made without the Delegates' explicit input.
Who makes these decisions and how are they made?
Is it reasonable for a Delegate Council to make such decisions if they run counter to what the U08 leadership and management want?
Anyone know?
Steve Beller, PhD
Unity08 intends to run its own Candidates for Pres & VP .. it goes something like this ..
We the Delegates develop a New American Agenda for UNITY08 THAT WILL ATTRACT GOOD POTENTIAL CANDIDATES .. they can be Members of Any Party ..
Our Delegates get the opportunity to have proper Q&A Sessions with these Candidates .. Then Our Delegates Vote To Nominate A Candidate for Pres and VP, the only requirement being They Be From Different Parties ..
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF OUR AGENDA IS : IT HAS TO KNOCK THE SOCKS OFF ANYTHING THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES OFFER, It Has To REFLECT NEW AND EXCITING OPPORTUNITIES - NOT JUST TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS, but also TO MOVE THE COUNTRY FORWARD and make this a safer and better place for our kids and grandkids.
AND YES WE ARE GOING TO BE A 3rd PARTY (I was hoping it would be "THE AMERICAN UNITY PARTY" ..
Pete Evans
If a Delegate Council was adopted, whereby the Delegates created (not selected), discussed and voted on the issue for our platform with complete transparency, the only thing missing would be the establishment of a completely online local, state, regional and national political party. If such was the case, there would be no need for a "...offshoot".
ex animo,
davidfarrar
I don't know how other feel, David, but having a Delegate Council create (i.e., identify and establish) issues for the Delegates to focus on, and from which they build our platform/agenda. makes sense to me!
Steve Beller, PhD
This message is in respise to Dr. Beller's post: A case for making U08 a 3rd party
Who told you that? That's news to me. Please advise. The last I head, Unity08 is a privately owned IRS 527 political action corporation.
ex animo
davidfarrar
That's how I'm reading Bill's last post:
"After our Online Chat with the Ballot Access Director yesterday, we will clearly be a Party in at least 30 states. But each state defines what that is, not the FEC. I think the FEC is mostly about the do's and don'ts of money: how it can be collected and how it can be spent. So, our campaign can stay on track whatever they do."
Steve Beller, PhD
--I think that should be "Phil", not Bill, is wrong. In order to bring about real change -- which is what Unity08 says it wants to do -- in the political forces that presently influence the other two major parties, Unity08 will have to be as strong, if not stronger, than they are, both before and after the election.
Sure, in many states the definition of "party" may be different, but when it comes time to settle the matter in court, the judge will look at the structure of the two opposing sides and invariably go with the side that has the more substantial party structure. We can get into the specific structure of the other two major political parties as it relates to Unity08's structure on a later post. But believe me, the comparison between a previously owned, private IRS 527 political action corporation that has just registered within the last few months as an FEC PAC, and now has restructured itself into a FEC registered CCE (committee of continuous existence), with no elected officials, with just a few thousands signed petitions and a political agenda/platform created by a questionable process at best, versus a CCE with elected officials and delegates, having met in convention representing tens of thousands of other locally elected party executive committee members, who themselves represent millions of rank and file party members, together with a proven voting record stretching back at least hundred years, ain't pretty.
So I caution you to be careful when someone at Unity08 starts throwing around the word, "party". Unity08 may be a lot of things to a lot of people, but nobody should ever consider it a political party. Why should they? The owners of Unity08 don't -- read their literature.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Tougher to answer than I thought!
So, let me ask this question: What are the different ways states define "political party?"
And how about revisting these related issues:
Should UNITY be a political party? What kind? Why?
If it shouldn't a party, then what should it be? Should it be a political "epi-center" focusing on (a) building alliances with other grass-roots organization around a common American Agenda platform and (b) "pressuring" other parties to endorse our platform and holding them accountable for implementing it?
Steve Beller, PhD