Or will it be Nunn/Bloomberg?
If Unity08 is supposed to hold the first, unfettered, online political convention in this nation's history; if Unity08 is supposed to nominate and elect the next president and vice-president on a bipartisan ticket, why go to the owners of Unity08 first?
Wouldn't it be more logical to bring your campaign plans directly to the decision-makers, the delegates of Unity08?
Case in point:Can Nunn right U.S. troubles?
Apparently, Sam Nunn and Michael Bloomberg know who the real decision-makers are at Unity08...and it ain't the delegates.
What this article really is saying is Unity08 is no different than the other two major political parties.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Bloomberg does not need Unity 08 to proceed. His organization is much larger and more powerful. Unity 08 needs the likes of Bloomberg, Biden, Hagel, etc in the Unity 08 process to have a life after Bloomberg declares, if he declares to run. David, if you could get Bloomberg to declare today, you would get your avowed way with Unity 08, but the truth is that would also end the pathological demagoguery you are peddling.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
If Bloomberg/Nunn (Nunn/Bloomberg) were to declare today, that would prove my pathological demagoguery peddling wrong, not right, as you imply. But you and I know that's not going to happen, and now we know why -- because the fix is in at Unity08. Their online convention/nomination process won't be concluded until after the primaries, just in time to endorse Bloomberg/Nunn's (Nunn/Bloomberg's) independent presidential run.
So what we have here is a privately owned, IRS political action corporation, acting under the guise of a "Peoples' Movement", endorsing Bloomberg/Nunn's (Nunn/Bloomberg's) presidential campaign as if it was the free and unfettered choice of millions of Unity08 delegates, all pursuing a owner-created, owner-directed "centralist" political platform that just happens to match word-for-word with Bloomberg/Nunn's (Nunn/Bloomberg's) political platform. Golly! What a coincidence.
Now, the only major question I have left is, will Bloomberg/Nunn (Nunn/Bloomberg) strategy also include the signing of Peter's "If I'm elected, I promise to be good" pledge?
ex animo
davidfarrar
Why do you continue to harp on this? Bloomberg already has his political machinery from his NY campaigns. He has people examining the scenario. He has also stated that he won't be running unless he can win. In private, he's been said to have assured people that he won't serve as a spoiler to the Democrats. He'll only run if he can win.
What I think that you're really "sensing", David, is that if Bloomberg does run, Unity08 might be forced into a non-issue movement. This would be because Bloomberg would be running as a centrist sort of candidate. Further, there's going to be a limited playing space for a 3rd party. Bloomberg's billions assure that it'll be him that takes control of that space, forcing Unity's candidates (assuming people don't choose Bloomberg) to a distant second place. As always, there will be a Green, Libertarian, Constitution, and other minor party candidates that will get no media attention and even less votes.
What is significant here is that Unity08 is poised to be a possible contender because it respects the tactical reality of avoiding the spoiler trap. Contrary to the belief of all the self-proclaimed visionaries that start political parties every election cycle, Unity is taking an approach that has a far higher chance of success. However, it's biggest competition is Bloomberg, because, in Centrist world, "this town isn't big enough for both of us", and Bloomberg's going to win that fight if it comes down to it.
Another thing to consider is that Bloomberg is the only candidate (though undeclared) that is actually independent and able to "flirt" with Unity. The other candidates in each major party can't do such a thing lest they become immediate pariah's in their party and because they're still trying for its nomination. This circumstance will change once the Dem/Rep front runners are official, but right now it's the way the game has to be played. Right now, Unity08 is a sort of focus group, using as many people as they can get to share their opinions and divine what people perceive to be centrist and bi-partisan.
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
I really don't care if Bloomberg or Nunn run or don't run. It is the political hypocrisy Unity08 is engaging in that is the issue.
Here we have Unity08 claiming to be different, claiming to be nonpartisan, claiming to want to give people a real voice in choosing their next president and vice-president, claiming not to be yet another lobbyists filled, special interest-controlled political party. When, in fact, we find that Unity08 is really no different than all the rest. Its owners and major lenders weren't just donating their time and money in a selfless act to right the political wrongs of the day, but to use the hopes and dreams of well-meaning people who want to do the right thing for the country they love to achieve their own sorted, selfish political ends. I don't know where you stand on this issue, GP, but from where I am standing that's pretty disgusting.
ex animo
davidfarrar
You condemn the actions of Unity as not allowing the membership to choose, yet the stated plan was that the choosing component isn't coming until later anyway. How can you declare that they have defaulted on their promise when we haven't even got to that point yet? You seem to be trying, very desperately to connect whatever dots you can to hobble this effort to the best extent that one person can hobble it.
Further, I would suggest that Unity is being more than fair, considering that YOU are being given complete free reign to market your own political party without restriction. I have never seen a constructive post by you. Every post is a slap at Unity and an attempt to promote your own political party.
Can you at least acknowledge that the Unity "conspirators" are rather fair in giving you unrestricted freedom to say what you want, even though everything you say is known to be against the very forum you speak in?
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
on more than one occasion. Fortunately, the courts, Internet law and the 1st Amendment are the controlling legal authority here, not Unity08's leaders.
Even the recent forum changes were done in an effort to silence me, according to Bill73...go figure.
I think I have addressed your other concerns in earlier posts concerning the fact that it will be they, the owners of Unity08, giving us choices to choose from to develop Unity08 political plank and not the delegate themselves. In a true democratic structure, certainly in the NCP, political planks will come from only one source, the delegate membership itself.
I, you, and all the other activist who have the political moxie to sign up as delegates in the first place, don't need no stinking "poll-driven, know-it-all, Washington insiders telling us who they think we should choose and what we have to believe in.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Might you present some actual evidence to these claims? I'm having a hard time swallowing this. Seems to me if they wanted to "silence" you they'd just cancel your account. Are you sure this isn't all in your head?
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
GP
Semantics matter, and "Unity'08" cannot help but raise warning signals to those of us who think political correctness, that old China import and totalitarian tool, is among the biggest problems our society faces. "Unity" is one of PC's most significant buzzwords (Truth is PC's worst enemy and has no place in its lexicon.).
Similarly, the word "centrist" is used a lot nowadays by liberals to define themselves. But most "centrists" I know are pretty liberal, or maybe fascist. They tend to support a close relationship between big business and big government. That sure is true of Sam Nunn, and I guess Bloomberg.
rphillips
rphillips@windstream.net
David, I'm a new member, but you are right: the delegates ain't the decision makers at Unity '08. The huge majority of people in the country who are dissatisfied with matters include an awful lot of conservatives. But as best I can determine from reading the list, Unity '08's decision makers are left of center, and some of them greatly so. It appears to me their strategy is to mobilize public disenchantment and youthful exhuberance and "idealism" to restore liberals to power in Washington.
As for Bloomberg and Nunn, that should be their dream ticket. I don't know Bloomberg, but I have known Sam longer than either of us would like to admit.
If you want a draft back, Sam in your man. He went to Washington the year the draft ended and fought publicly and behind the scenes to bring it back until he left office. I suspect he would even embrace the pet project of most collectivistic wing of the Democratic party--compulsory service for the entire population (championed by the likes of Barbara Mikluski and Evan Bayhr)--to get his draft back.
Nunn almost succeeded, by the way, when the hostages were taken in Iran in 1979. But Ronald Reagan stopped that plan cold by getting elected before they could do it.
And we can thank Rumsfeld for keeping the compulsory service crowd from getting a draft in 2024. Rumsfeld headed Defense when the draft ended in the 1970s: he announced immediately after 911 there will be NO DRAFT. Thank God for him.
RPhillips
Great News! Sam Nunn on any ticket would be GREAT and I would vote for that ticket no matter WHAT or how he got on there by hook or by crook! That would be INSTANT credibility in my book! Knowing Sam Nunn and what he is about and his incredible integrity in and out of office I would vote for a ticket Sam Nunn was on in a heartbeat!! Nunn knows National Security/Foreign Policy Strategy like no one else and he knows the modalities and implications of the Entitlements blackhole better than anyone with his work with Concord (see http://www.concordcoalition.org ) - Both the 2 Mega-issues that MUST be effectivley addressed by the next Prez.
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
But I think it is a terrible comment on our corrupt political system to see a presidential personality like Sam Nunn, having to bend down and kiss the boot-tops of Michael Bloomberg just to have a chance to run for the vice-presidency, all because of money. It is for this kind of mockery I hold Mr. Bloomberg, and all his millions, in the highest contempt.
However, do not be disheartened. I pledge to you, as soon as a true, viable 3rd Internet party is created, presidential candidates of Sam Nunn's caliber and stature, and many, many others will have a means of running and winning their rightful place in America's political history.
If you would like to join a discussion group to address the creation of a true Internet political party, please go to The Unity Cyber Party Yahoo Group
ex animo
davidfarrar
The Unity Cyber Party
Sam Nunn, in the article you're referring to stated that he would NOT run as VP, but only as president. I guess that rule's Bloomberg out, huh? Yet somehow he's kissing Bloomberg's boots in your claim.
Perhaps there's an alternate explanation: like Bloomberg before him, Sam Nunn is unhappy with the system and is now putting feelers out there as an independent candidate. Maybe it's really not a conspiracy. Maybe - brace yourself - there are just two prominent independent-minded candidates considering a presidential run. No clandestine meetings here, just two people on the same page?
As for Bloomberg's money, I find it really humorous that a person that came from humble beginnings and becomes fantastically successful is somehow terrible. Would we be better off only considering people who started from humble beginnings and went...nowhere? Should the presidency be an office of mediocrity or talent?
Judge the man by his actions right? Well, do a little research on Mike and his tenure in NYC. He's accomplished a lot compared to those that came before him, and his approval ratings are top of the list.
Or is that perhaps another conspiracy? (FNORD!!!)
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
That is what the article says. I will withdraw my post, if I can.
As I pointed out, I really don't care if Bloomberg runs or not. What I do care about is the integrity of Unity08's process, as stated. And, as stated, we, as mere delegates, will only be allowed to choose from the choices given to us by our benevolent dictators-owners. To me, that's a far cry from on open online convention and a free nominating process.
ex animo
davidfarrar
The list of delegates that we'll pick from will most likely be tempered by the reality of who the Unity leadership knows might run. What good is it for the Unity delegation to nominate someone like Obama when it's obvious he'd never be a candidate for Unity08? How worthwhile would this effort be if it culminates in the nomination of a "people's choice" who would never run under Unity in the first place? What happens then?
The whole point of leadership is to temper the group towards realistic options. Not to dictate but to guide. What the rest of us perceive as a reasonable part of the effort you take as some clandestine conspiracy. Each group - the delegates, the leadership, and the candidates - has a role to play and part of that role involves compromise between each of the groups.
Blind democracy is dominated by the masses. Educated democracy is the masses tempered by good leadership and wisdom. Leadership is not necessarily conspiracy.
-GP
Let's do as The Beatles' said: "Come together, right now. Unity." Something like that... ;)
In any effective pollitical coalition/alliance there are leaders and there are followers. On issues, candidates, branding (trifecta for success) we do need to temper with and focus on as GP says "realistic options". The internet zip-zap is all good and fine but does need tempering and reigning in with some wisdom of experience. One look at the shoutbox should be enough to convince on that!
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
I think it's a terrible commentary on our political system the piped piper of politicians that bow and scrape and grovel to the Iowa Buttercow as they grovel to the extreme activist groups that run the show there on the Repub and Demo sides. And that is coming from somebody from Iowa.
If you want terrible commentaries on American politics just take a couple weeks saunter in the next few months to Iowa as I did the last few weeks. Real sad stuff what our democracy has devloved into esp with these panderbear primary and caucuses. It's sound-bite heaven and shameless pandering big time! A Lousy process and we get lousy Presidents and the big issues get kicked down the road and unadressed. If we can get a Sam Nunn any way on a ticket and Prez or even Veep any amount of boot-licking would be a vast improvement on the current sad situation. and knowing sam I doubt he would do any or be asked to.
DC - 3rd ward - milligansstew08@yahoo.com
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
Why would all three of them almost instinctly go directly to the leadership of Unity08 to give our fearless leaders a "briefing", if the real decision-makers are suppose to be the delegates?
ex animo
davidfarrar
I could go for Sam Nunn Ticket
popo
That is the expanded version of reality. Hopefully Bloomberg will see Unity 08 as a national primary for independents and join in to confirm what he needs to know about winning.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
and that is pretty disgusting.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
David was just one of the abusers of the liberty Unity 08 has provided here to use the structure of the Shoutbox to block others and smother newcomers with their garbage. I just called his bluff on his slanders toward Unity 08. He is doing it again in claiming that HE was in anyway a personal target of any Unity 08 leadership activity. I suspect that he has been outright liable in that.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Normally, I would not take a quote from a message that wasn't directly sent to me, but in this case, and under these circumstances, the folloing is a direct from Bill73 to GEA, message 358, in the U08 Delegate Council Discussion: Bill73: "GEA I certainly agree that the moderates get drowned out in the shout box by extremeist. Fortunately some small but important changes have been made to limit their impact on the newcomers.".
I rest my case.
ex anmio
davidfarrar
This message is in response to GP in Minnesota's post: Um...
...not without due cause. It would be a 1st Amendment issue. I would have to break the establish rules and those rules must be applied to all, equally. But they have tried on several occasions to block my posts. I will try and search the records to see if they have recorded the occasions. I think there are records covering at least some of the events to which I speak. But you will have to give me a few days to dig them out.
ex animo
davidfarrar
and I was not alone, but guilty pleas are generally accepted.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
Unity 08 leadership said early on that they would seek out some potential candidates for their interest and acknowledged that most would require discretion in public comments. Such activity was essential to justify the initial large expenditures and debt commitments. Even a periodic followup isentirely justified. At this point, there is no sense in overtures in the opposite direction....Unity 08 is still too small for that.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
While Sam Nunn is not my absolute favorite, he would not be a bad candidate for Unity08. If Nunn were to run I'd like to see him paired with Ron Paul. Dr. Paul is one of my favorite candidates; along with Bill Richardson. My all time Dream Ticket would be Bill Richardson for President and Rong Paul for VP. He would certainly restore the office of Vice President to a constitutional standing; which Cheney has destroyed. The good thing about Nunn is that he is slightly to the right of center; which is what I think Americans really want.
Unity08 may not be perfect; but I think it is a fine start.
For information about voting and democracy in the USA see the Center for Voting and Democracy website at
http://www.fairvote.org
Billy C said
'...good thing about Nunn is that he is slightly to the right of center; which is what I think Americans really want.'
Telling us a lot more about what HE really wants than anything else. Ten minutes reading anywhere on this site would suggest that what most Americans want is a new political vocabulary!
Hmmm. Richardson/Paul. OK, that's my favorite so far (except Imus/Sharpton!)
JR
I ask this question in all seriousness. Some of you seem to actually think before throwing out pairs of potential running mates for Unity 08... but others almost seem to try and outdo each other by putting together some of the most unlikely people to leave their party and/or run with Unity 08.
Richardson is loved in the Democratic party, the guy will assuredly be on short lists for the VP slot for whoever wins the Dem nod, could be in the cabinet of any Dem president and his stars are certainly in ascension in the Democratic party. Who seriously thinks he would leave and what reason do you have to think so.
Ron Paul is a Libertarian. He ran as a Libertarian before and if he ever did leave the Republican party, he'd go with them. Why would he break ranks with the Libs and shoot for the nod of an organization like ours mostly populated by centrists?
Wich side would you put libertarians on, right or left. Go to the Libertarian party website and look at the diamond. Libertarians are in the center, the center of freedom.
lnk ~ congress' immigration report card ~ find your senators/reps voting report card(s)
(lnk is ~ http://grades.betterimmigration.com/view_all.html3?Flag=GRADE)
(Each legislative action is graded by how much it would reduce or increase illegal or legal immigration & associated enforcement or lack of.)
i don't know any of these (career, ugh) politicians and ,i'm thinking, they'll tell you(i) what you(i) want to hear........ugh....
.......so any (systematic) evaluations (esp. comparisons) of their ideas, legislation etc ... helps me calibrate who/what i'm looking at.......
~ sampling immigration & its enforcement report card(s) ~
Tom Tancredo............Final Grade: A+
Duncan Hunter...........Final Grade: A+
Jeff Sessions...........Final Grade: A
Ron Paul................Final Grade: B
Ben Nelson..............Final Grade: B-
Fred Thompson...........Final Grade: C-
Mitt Romney.............Final Grade: C-
Sam Nunn................Final Grade: C-
John Edwards............Final Grade: D ( supports amnesty, participated in univison debate)
Newt Gingrich...........Final Grade: D ( supports amnesty )
John Mccain.............Final Grade: D ( supports amnesty )
Chris Dodd..............Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty, participated in univison debate)
Mike Gravel.............Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty, participated in univison debate)
Barack Obama............Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty, participated in univison debate)
Hilary Clinton..........Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty, participated in univison debate)
Dennis Kucinich.........Final Grade: D- (supports amnesty, against building fence(s) & favors spanish as America's 2nd "official" national language)
Joseph Biden............Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty )
Chuck Hagel.............Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty )
Sam Brownback...........Final Grade: D- ( supports amnesty )
Wesley Clark............Final Grade: F ( supports amnesty )
Bill Richardson.........Final Grade: F- ( supports amnesty, against building fence(s) & participated in univison debate)
Nancy Pelosi............Final Grade: F- ( supports amnesty~ 27 sanctuary cities in her state )
Michael Bloomberg.......Final Grade: F- ( supports amnesty & mayor of sanctuary city )
Rudolph Guliani.........Final Grade: F- ( supports amnesty & mayor of sanctuary city )