Freedom of assembly is the freedom to associate with, or organize any groups, gatherings, clubs, or organizations that one wishes. It is held to be a key right in liberal democracies, whereby citizens may form or join any political party, special interest group, or union without government restrictions. Wikipedia
However, when it comes to lobbying activities for 501 (c)(3) (non-profit) organizations the rules for their involvement in political and legislative lobbying activities is determined by IRS Tax Code. Now, bear in mind that these organizations receive a non-tax status by virtue of the type of organization that they are. We pay the bills and these organization reap the benefits from us taxpayers footing the bill for the things that we all share.
My question is, why is there any distinction at all between the types of lobbying that they can do? Yes, you heard me right, they can legally lobby. A distinction is made in the IRS tax code that gives them the right to do limited lobbying on legislative issues. That's right, they can lobby for how our tax dollars are spent while they do not have to pay any taxes! We are funding their right to compete with us for how our tax dollars are spent. Evidently, they get their cake (they pay no taxes) and they get to eat it too (they get to lobby the legislators that we pay for).
I spoke with a lobbyist in my home state of Indiana and he told me that yes he did receive money from a State supported University to lobby on its behalf. Does this make sense? Our tax dollars are paid to lobbyists so they can lobby for more of my tax dollars? None of my comments to this point even touch on the fact that there are much more lax rules for businesses that have money to lobby our representatives. Even though the First Amendment gives everyone the freedom to assemble, it is the IRS tax rules that govern the behavior of entities as they exert influence about how our tax dollars are spent.
I have not seen a thread that addresses this important issue. I say we need to abolish tax rules that treat entities as individuals with lobbying rights. All lobbying by entities with a tax status whatsoever, needs to be outlawed.
You are absolutely right. The entire tax code is corrupt. Ask any broker, economist, financial planner, etc. and they will tell you that the tax code is where the government gets a big part of their power. This is the reason why a flat tax or fair tax will never be approved in congress. At least not the congress we presently have.
However, I did not know that lobbyist had tax free status. It seems to me that is or should be illegal. Furthermore, IMHO, no group and/or corporation should be treated as an individual and therefore should not have the same rights as an individual.
With regards to your first paragraph, I would assume that means the government cannot interfere or restrict an individual to join or form a group but that group is still obliged to follow the law. does Any law enacted should protect the right of the individual over the rights of a group. The fact that the tax code gives such rights to lobbyist and corporations is in direct violation of the law.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
I presume that I am like most people about the tax code, if some part of it didn't directly apply to me, I didn't bother with it. It has been a learning experience here as I have looked a little closer at the code and I see how we have painted ourselves into a corner. You, John M., and others have made me look at things I never really considered before now.
While Unity08 draws attention to the broken system of lobbying, I did not see any special guidance on how to fix it. Since that time, I have not seen a more powerful tool, to combat the ever increasing demands of the electorate to grab a bigger piece of the pie for themselves through special interest lobbying, than the need to remove the tax code conditions that are fomenting this unrestricted growth. Rather than try and reduce the size of the monster, Americans continue climbing aboard the bandwagon to amplify their personal voices and self-interest through more of the same. People are simply stepping up to shout louder without any regard for what is best for everyone.
The proliferation of special interest groups should be our focus inre to reforming the tax code.
-and they could have their current tax bracket if they choose not to engage in lobbying.
These are my two knee-jerk responses for clearing away the clutter. Perhaps some more serious proposals can be offered to address this problem. Those that know the various specific IRS tax code rules that promote the growth of special interest lobbyist can probably tell us where we need real teeth to reverse this devastating trend.
Delegate Phil
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
It would be hard to "bother with it" since it is over 20,000 pages. If we had honest courts, it would be declared void for vagueness. It is the principal tool of favor in our gov't. Especially to corporations.
What yanks my chain is the "retired" "public servants" going into the lobbying business, after they have set the table while in office. Any public servant, from dogcatcher to president, should be forbidden to lobby for anything. ever. Some will call this a suppression of free speech. Well, if it is in the contract when you take office, then the right is surrendered voluntarily.
I believe all private meetings with a lobbyist should be outlawed.
Lobbyists should be required to wear a blaze orange uniform whenever they meet with a politician so the public can scrutinize every encounter.
All conversations with a lobbyist should be recorded and be public knowledge.
Any politician that violates any above should be immediately impeached and charged with corruption.
Politicians are employees of the people and should be held accountable for every move they make and we can fire them at will.
I agree we need to curb lobbying.
Could we pass a law or Consititutional amendment stating that representatives and senators may only accept funds or other things of value (trips, vacations, etc.) from persons eligible to vote for such representative or senator? Corporations and unions could lobby their employees to vote or donate funds but could not themselves donate to the candidates or political parties. Foreigners and convicted criminals would not be able to provide funds.
To replace the amount of advertising, we could have newspapers (via tax incentives, postal incentives, or other means) print at least one full page column for each candidate running for an office in the region of the country the newspaper covers, e.g., the Washington Post would cover all candidates for President, Vice President, Virginia and Maryland Senators and Representatives, Virginia and Maryland state representatives, Alexandria, Arlington Fairfax, Falls Church, etc. mayors and city council men and women, etc.) for six weeks running (within 3 months of the primaries and again within 3 months of the elections covering the following subject matter:
1st week - candidates pick their own topics - talk only of their positions (not their opponents positions)
2nd week - candidates respond to other candidates positions of prior week
3rd week - newspaper readers pick the subject matter and candidates write up their own positions
4th week - candidates respond to other candidates positions of prior week
5th week - newspaper editors pick the subject matter(s)
6th week - candidates respond to other candidates positions of prior week
7th week - if wanted - candidates' choice
This would help voters become knowledgeable of candidtes ideas (rather than their looks) and would help even the playing field for those without family wealth.
We are totally kidding ourselves thinking that change can come abouas long as the most destructive element and cancer in our society, is allowed to continue. . Money must be taken out out of politics. lobbyists must not be allowed to contribute , other than their positions, money or perks to any government official. We are folling oursewlves and the country to think that any measureable changes can be made to our democracy, while money and lobbyists have enormous power and influence over the people we send to do the "country's" work. Only then can the process be allowed to operate as it should. There are many, many, things needed to be done. , but this is paramount.
You cannot change anything as long as money and power exist in the hands of special interest groups.
C A Pecora.
Phil
Been to the Unity08 Delegate wiki lately? Join today!http://unity-usa.org
Lets uncorrupt our government!
This is one the founders dropped the ball on. Congress is the only employ of the gov't for which the Constitution does not provide for removal in case of bribery. The houses could certainly pass the rule, but you might as well go ahead and paint your face blue. Maybe an amendment.
Pete's Plan is the only plan ON THE TABLE That Can INSURE : TRANSPARENCY, PERFORMANCE & ACCOUNTABILITY .. The Tax Code Is Merely One Of The Myriad Of Areas The Lawyers In Congress Have Established By Which Members Can Hide Their Skulduggery and Deals with their cronies on the outside ..
WE MUST HAVE TOTAL TRANSPARENCY & THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN PERFORMANCE & ACCOUNTABILITY FROM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS & GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES ..
WE The People have already bought and paid for Equipment and Programs Whereby EVERYTHING DONE IN BOTH HOUSES CAN BE ON SCREENS IN REAL TIME .. Establishing Public Feedback In Big Numbers On a 24/7 Basis
IS POSSIBLE RIGHT NOW TODAY .. for the cost of 1 Fighter Jet (which can be destroyed with a $150.00 Shoulder fired missile launcher) THIS SYSTEM COULD BE UP AND RUNNING NATIONWIDE IN 45/60 DAYS ..
AS THE MAN SAYS - COMMON SENSE IS THE CURE FOR STUPIDITY !!
Peter K. E