Currently we are looking at new ways to organize the Shoutbox to organize it more effectively and to make it easier to use for you. Any changes that you see to the Shoutbox will be as a result of your input and dedication to Unity08.
The first thing that will be done is reorganizing the shoutbox so that it's easier to find related topics. No longer will there be topics on the same issue on multiple forums; like most moderated forums, topics will start being moved under the subject heading that they belong.
Please use this thread to post any features/changes you'd like to see to the shoutbox. Due to the limitations of the technology, not all requests will be able to be completed. In addition to suggestions for changes, please think about (and post) what you think about the following.
1. Are there any topic categories that are missing that would be relevent? Topic categories that are not needed?
2. Do you think certain topics/threads should belong in other places? Which ones? Why?
3. Do you like the way comments or posts are currently displayed, or should the entire text of the posts be completed with comment subject links that display the actual post when you click on it?
4. Do you like the degree of moderation of comments? Are certain posts or certain types of posts unhelpful? Should there be greater emphasis on not allowing creation of new topics if a discussion on the same topic already exists?
Thanks for any and all suggestions you can offer.
The default display setting for reply threads is set: Last posted, first shown. This leads to a very confusing read after all the reply threads are posted. They are simply not in their proper context. You have one reply thread addressing itself to another thread that is further down the thread. I think it would be clearer to have: first posted, first shown, and last posted, last shown. In this manner the entire thread can be followed and understood in its proper form, the way the writers were actually seeing it at the time of their postings.
In addition, I support Number 3, posting entire messages on the open page takes up too much room and, therefore, does not allow enough room on the open page to view the message chain in its entirety...very important if you want to keep track of the content development of the opening question. I would suggest simply posting the subject, time,date, poster's name, and thumbs-up/thumbs-down dispay of each reply message as its opening link. In this manner, you would have the opening question, and then under it, starting from the upper left and proceeding to the lower right of the opened page, all of the message links, their subject, date and time of posting.
This set up would tend to make people use a little more imagination in creating their titles and it is far more easier to follow the train of thought of the whole message chain at a glance instead of having to read every one of the messages in their reverse order to try an make any sense of the message chain.
To addess those who can't be bothered to scroll down to the bottom of the page, changing to the subject links would also allow them easy access to the last post posted because in most cases the last post's subject will usually be shown on the open page. In addition, if the messages get to many, as they frenquently do, people have to scroll down anyway to find their message when it's on the second page. It also doesn't go directly from where your message is listed on the index page if your message happens to be on anyhting but the first page....please change that.
I have some more suggestions to offer Unity08, but right now I have a far, far more important issue to deal with when it comes to Unity08's sellout to lobbyists and special interests. However, when this is resolved, I would be glad to help out in this regard.
Sincerely
DavidFarrar
Hello Bob,
1. I asked and many others have agreed that you should add an “Ignore Button” in the “SHOUT BOX”. Numerous participants wanted to ignore particular posters who were abusive and not contributing with rational dialogue. The “Ignore Button” would allow the annoying poster to submit their opinions and would not exclude them from participating. Then at the same time, it would allow others to not see or read posts by annoying individuals.
2. I would like to see a word search and a member search so we can find a subject or a member, some members have very constructive comments, but you cannot find them.
3. I also suggested that when a delegate signs up part of registering process must include their STATE and CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. If this is added with the search, we could find other delegates within our state.
Lets see some real changes in the web site.
****
How many of our States & Congressional Districts are represented by ‘08 Delegates.
Under your Profile, in your Signature space it would be hepful if you added your ”unity08name”, with State & District:“your08name"-NY07
ihavehadit-CT02, unity08_ct02@yahoo.com
I like the message order. It's easy to see the newest thoughts at the top of the page and the back-and-forths flow smoothly under the appropriate comment. Fisrt up first shown would require you to page to the end everytime to see the most recent posts.
The only problem I have with this order is that if you make a comment and need to leave, you have trouble finding your way back to discussion. If there was a search or at least put the forum you in at the bottom of the post, that might be enough. I wonder if this can be done automatically so we done have to type it in.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
In my opinion, Government Reform and Campaign reform should go hand in hand. To address one without the other will only leave you with half the picture and will accomplish little in the real world. I can only assume this will be part of the platform since u08 was created to address this problem.
Limiting new forums on subjects that already exist is a definite.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
Please put email notification on here when someone replys to my messages!
ex animo
davidfarrar
Health Care I think is major issue and we should have a forum for that.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
I think that the boards should be moderated with more intensity, and under the guiding principle that we should be striving towards centrism. People aren't going to always do this on their own, so I would suggest that moderators prod occassionally and re-point discussions when they are clearly off course. If we don't do this things are going to degrade into a mess. Unity isn't easy.
We're not going to be able to please everyone. At some point we need to advance a take-it-or-leave mentality. Establish a solid center ,but allow reasonable amounts of dissent. Just don't allow blatant partisanship.
Just about everyone in this endeavor is coming from one of the major parties. Regardless of how independent we want to be, we all have biases, and exhibit Pavlovish reactions to certain words. We'll need to de-program ourselves a bit and learn to unlearn. I would suggest that there be two moderators:
Restricting how many post or how many words a person may use is little excessive in my opinion. Back and forth discussions is how you come to agreements. If you just make your view and be done with it, what does that accomplish? I would agree that a moderator should prod people back on the subject at hand when needed.
I would agree we should not accept blatant partisanship and that not everyone will agree, that is what voting is for.
I don't agree that everyone is from one of the two parties, there are independents too. I also do not believe that if you are from one of the parties you are equal to everyone in that party. Blue dog dems find valid points from both parties and so does Tuesday's reps and there are those who will go along with anything there party may say. IMH they are the ones who will never change their mind on matter how logical a point of view may be, they are the ones who are bias. Yes, we all have certain views, that does not necessarily mean your bias. I assume most people have good reasons for their views.
Some people really do have an open mind and have been known to change their view. I have on a number is things, but I got there by discussing, going back and forth. A healthy debate between others on a number of issues has change my position, if not the entire topic at least some parts. It also gives me the opportunity to understand what others think and why. As long as one can respect a differing point of view, debate is a good thing. So assuming everyone has their point and it is the only point they will accept or that they are bias is not true, IMH.
I just don't agree with controlling or limiting the conversations.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
This idea might be a bit much, but I find it an interesting concept. Start with the principle that all things that operate under the premise of unlimited resources tend to be wasteful. On chat boards this takes the form of over-long rants and repetitive back-and-forth posting. The latter is the no. #1 culprit as to why messages boards go off-topic fast.
What if posters were limited to 200 word posts, and/or 5 posts a day, or 2 posts a day in the same thread, etc? This forces the poster to compose their thoughts with clarity; quality over quantity.
What if under the issues section each poster was permitted one and only one post to express their point of view? They could edit that from time to time, but ultimately they get one post. This would make the board more readable and a lot more useful to others trying to get a feel for Unity 08.
A good question that the Unity leadership should pose to itself is: what is the purpose of the boards? If they are to be constructive as opposed to just random banter, I would strongly suggest a limitation in resources.
One final thing to consider is that as the membership grows, and we get closer towards that million, these boards are going to get uglier and messier. The posting quality is going to look more like Digg, than cool civil debate. The limited resource approach might be a really good idea by then...
The current title implies and encourages combativeness. It suggests confrontation, not cooperation. It suggests noise, not cool thinking.
A) Adopt a "crowd management" method to managing the forum(s). While there are those that are calling for "more moderation," (i.e. by one or more individuals), the howls of "CENSORSHIP!" can't be far behind. An "open-source" approach is more equitable, SCALEABLE, (you DO want to attract more people, don't you?), and defensable.
When I'm logged in, the ability to "ignore" certain people would be a good start for me alone, but ratings on a scale of 1-5 (least favorable to most favorable) on each post, plus additional buttons for "Off-topic," "Rude/Threatening" etc. would be usesful for all.
MoveOn.org discovered that most people don't vote on posts, they just like writing their own. You may have to "require" a certain number of votes before someone is allowed to post something new. GP's concept of a "limited resource" could also apply in this case.
The ability to sort a given topic chronologically OR by "Most Favorable Rating" (something like how Amazon rates items shown after a given search).
B) Envision a real-world caucus/meeting process and try to emulate that in software.
C) Give goals, a timetable and regular updates.
Right now your credibility, well - sucks. If you're going to get any traction from this thing you've got to get that back. Promise, then deliver.
Trombone, yes... that is one of the solutions that we are evaluating (and one that we are familiar with, too). Currently, we are upgrading the version of drupal that the site uses and looking to see if they new module version has some of this technology.
Good job, Web team.
If you guys keep this up I might even have to wipe that sour puss I've had on my face for the last 5 months...
Thank you all for all of your suggestions and input. Please keep it up. Although not everything will be enacted, and some things take time (and if something's done that you don't like, be sure to post it here) all of your opinions are being heard.
In regard to moderating, I can't speak for far into the future, but the plan for now is to allow debates and discussion to take place as long as postings aren't inflammatory. There won't be "limiting" or "controlling" of conversations, at least beyond deleting posts if they are off topic or if they are constantly the same thing without actually discussing an issue with others.
This is meant to be a place for free discussion. Lets see how it goes.
-A
I am not sure if Unity08 has posted their Forum Rules, but if they haven't, they need to be published. If they are posted, make sure you apply them equally to all, regardless of message content, or you will have some free speech issues to deal with before the Man. I am already dealing with threats and name-calling.
ex animo
davidfarrar
I'm about to start a topic to discuss potential rules. They aren't finalized yet, but I figure that it'd be best if everyone gives a lot of input before they are finalized. Topic should be up by the end of the day, in this forum group.
-A
Before the posts start rolling in about the "User Moderation" function not working and going to a "Page Not Found", we are currently working to fix that functionality. So please bear with us, and in the near future the comments may be able to be user moderated so that those which are active/good will be prominent and those that are poor will be lower, and if people want to choose to filter all poorly rated comments, that will also be an option.
Additionally, the bar to select in what order comments are displayed is also displayed right now at the top of the comments, but unfunctional. It is also being worked on.
The *default* display order of comments will change in the near future to oldest first. When the functionality is changed for the drop down boxes, personal preferences will be easily changable for comment viewing.
Let me know if you have any questions.
-A
Who grades the post? I would be concerned that if someone is asking questions that another deems stupid, they would grade it poor, but the poster may be very serious about their questions. Or the poster may not be especially apt at expressing their opinion but that does not make their opinion any less important. I have to admit, this concerns me.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
To go all "80's" on you - "I hear your concern." :-)
The answer to your question of who is rating the comments:
All of us.
This is democracy in action (grass-roots - finally!). So you have to have faith that - overall - your comments will be rated fairly. I don't think this group is looking for Jeffersonian eloquence - just ideas that ring true..
My personal preference would be a rating scale from 1-5.
1- Strongly Disagree
2- Disagree
3- Neutral
4- Agree
5- Strongly Agree
This is more "opinion" than judgement oriented, and better suited to our purpose, in my view. I'm hoping the Web Team will eventually see the light on this.
After you think about it, you'll hopefully come to the conclusion that this is the kind of "focus" you've been looking for. If enough people participate in good faith, you'll start to see a consensus form around issues of importance, with those that are inane relegated to obscurity...
I would agree with you. I like the 1-5 rating much better. The poor or good somehow doesn't sound positive. If you get poor rating, you could take that anyway, Your suggestion would go more to the agreement part of the statement.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
Those of us thet can help people make their points - will do so ..
I will try where I can ..
The idea that man could fly - go the moon - live and work in space - I'm sure had plenty of naysayers - who considered the idea stupid ..
Any idea that responds to a need - is worth putting on the table for others to review ..
popo
I agree and I know you will help where possible. However, some will not. I like tromboneErik idea about the 1-5 rate, this good or poor is too negative. I guess the part of me that wants to protect is coming out. I always tried to be careful about putting a negative twist on things. I had too.
Betty McLeod
PA 06
Betty327@ptd.net
Change is Good - Thank You.
The stuff we do here in the shoutbox is very well suited to an email list where a conversation follows a specific thread, wherever it goes. Part of the beauty of that approach is that we could use yahoogroups or msngroups and not burden the Unity08 team with that technical and administrative headache. Also the very opinionated (perhaps offensive stuff) would be at arms length from Unity and the Unity brand.
There could be lists with specific purposes, like "unity08 foreign policy" or "unity08 energy policy" similar to the big issues in the shoutbox. You as an individual could choose to join of not join a list based on its content etc. Lists dominated by bullies would be places where bullies could fight or we may find that those lists simply become inactive. I mean who wants to post to a list where you get bullied. Folks who care about abortion could join the abortion list and those that don't won't. But when it comes to a vote on Unity08, we all have a say through Unity08's technology and they keep track of the totals, so they have control.
Like minded folks could group on their own lists as the nomination process unfolds. Also, given that none of us speaks for Unity08, it would be best if the lists were not Unity08 owned as that ownership implies support or at least places a burden of moderation on the Unity08 resources. The main Unity08 site would simply provide access to join a list or lists. Indeed Unity08 could choose what lists to place join links to such that if a list is (or becomes) too out of hand the link could be removed to join that list. A clear disclaimer would be included the Unity08 join a list link.
This will start getting things focussed - and motivate the submission of new ideas ..
A word to the wise (or unwise) - What America & The World Needs Now Are New Ideas - Better Ways To Do Things : DON'T BE AFRAID TO BREAK NEW GROUND AS LONG AS YOUR IDEAS MAKE SENSE TO YOU - AFTER YOU'VE RE-EXAMINED THEM YOURSELF & STILL FIND THEM VALID .. then Fight for them until someone offers something better ..
Cheap shots taken at new ideas simply show the ignorance and inadequacies of the shooter, and if these peoploe had their way we'd still be living in caves ..
popo
Thank you Popo, but its just common sense.
The Oh So Often - Missing Ingredient !!
popo
In some forums, positioned in the upper right-hand corner is the link the present forum member is responding to. Is that available in any drupal template?
ex animo
davidfarrar
You should be able to choose which recent messages to see. That is, I should be able to see what the last 25 posts are, or all the posts in the past six hours. It would make it much easier to keep track of a variety of discussions going on at once.
Also, this forum as set up does not fit on a standard screen. When I use a laptop with a wide screen, it is easy to read. When I use a desktop with a standard screen, it scrolls off the right end.
****
unity08_ct02@yahoo.com
Recent arrangement will present us much better to the newcomer and get them to matters of real interest to prospective delegates. An additional step would be to place the 'Resent Comments' links within defined discussion catagorys and allow each list to go back 3 days. The front page should link only posts selected by the Web Team as a positive development for Unity 08.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
I like the new "tracking Feature" on the member page, but I think it doesn't work well yet, there are topics listed there that I have not commented on in months sorting on top.
I think tracking should sort by most recent comment that the user made and a link provided to that comment. If it did that I could respond to replies made to my comment.
To join the U08 Delegate Council mail list send an email to
u08delegatecouncil-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
They are common on other forums....It allows people to see what and/or how the majority of people feel about and issue...
The most disputed will likely remain disputed.....but over a period of time the polls help people see how they are divided.....
It would be helpful on the multiple page threads to have page numbering at the top of the thread as well as at the bottom. As discussion threads grow, it would be easier to find where the discussion left off if you could immediately select a page. Right now you have to scroll down to the bottom and then select the page.