Cleaning up the System, Idealistic Fantasies, and running with the democrats and republicians

posted by tolas on August 4, 2024 - 6:25pm

There has been some question as to whether we should support a candidate who is also attempting to run on one of the two main party tickets. Some have called for a "rule" which states that the candidate must not run in the democratic or republican primaries, and then come to unity08 only after he/she has lost.

I'd like to propose a different viewpoint. Not only should the candidates attempt to get on one of the two main party tickets, but the people and delegates of unity08 should also vote in their parties primaries if they are still registered as one of the "big two".

This will will let us not only impact a potential unity08 candidate, but will also be a force in the main parties as well.

If we can push them to some middle or pragmatic ground, then all the better. Let them discuss the liberal/conservative difference from there, not from the extremes while the foundation crumbles. All the so called "divisive" issues are valid discussion, but only when a society has a great deal else in order. We need to do some basic clean up to our system before we can go off debating idealistic fantasies.

My biggest problem is the level of discussion in politics. The repeating of the same old rhetoric as policies and decisions continue to fail. We need leaders, not talking heads. We need changes in the system. The “incumbent death lock on power” needs to be broken for our democracy to evolve.

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If U08 can get to focus issues that excite the media before the Rs and Ds get into primaries of 2024, U08 could be in the driver's seat for the whole election process of all parties. It could have ripple effects to many elective offices of that year.

U08 as a movement should pursue an agenda of issue focusing as ground work for an eventual presidential ticket and name recognition. The Rs and Ds early primary process will not just fuel our candidate slate, it will fuel our delegate base if initiated by early 2024. Rs and Ds must recognize a backup plan is available as a registered delegate of U08 to do what they as voter know is best even as their parties remain locked in the pocket of special interest.

Bill"for what we are together"

It makes sense to me - if this is how it plays out:
The left/right wing votes out a moderate candidate in favor of a more partisan one.
I agree with Bill that providing a "safety net" to the moderate candidates will allow him/her to speak more freely. I think we should expand this poicy towards other moderates in smaller races. This may allow us to co-opt already established campaign organiztions - although I might be being naive here.
As to my idealistic (and naive) ideoogy: civily debate, informed and ethical politicians and oh my goodness - COMPROMISE.

K Johnson

Exactly so! We need to be as soon as possible a strong or at least strengthening force in the center. The result should be that (a) the majors move toward the center in respose to our threat, or (b)the majors stay at or move further toward the fringes, and their moderate/centrist members defect to us. Either is a positive. Of course, we would need to viably exist soon enough...

Mark Greene
Texas Democrat in the Middle

Don Straus
I strongly believe that this suggestion is in the right direction,
but I strongly believe that we must give EQUAL recognition to both Democrat and Republican parties.

I understand that this is not easy, but is of great importance. Please steer me in the right direction for a discussion.

I’m afraid that unless we do this very carefully, we will split the Unity vote and lose any leverage we might have had. We will also allow the two major parties to trot out the same old wedge issues that appeal to their bases and ignore any real solutions to the serious problems we face.

Instead, I think we should:

1. Create statewide organizations in all 50 states. We will need them to just get on the ballot and we need them soon.

2. Worry more about what our platform is and less about who our candidates are. Politicians are becoming independent at a faster rate than I can ever remember (and I remember back to southern Democrats defying Kennedy). Lieberman has already been told he isn’t Democratic enough. I have no doubt that McCain will once again find out he isn’t Republican enough. If we can get some traction around our platform and state organizations, good candidates will find us.

3. Learn about, support and even co-market with organizations like National Popular Vote or the several advocacy groups that support some form of Instant Runoff Voting. I personally think that while we need a platform of centrist positions on all issues (nobody’s going to vote for a complete unknown) we should embrace election reform as our core issue. Most of these organizations are far ahead of us – bigger, better organized, more tightly focused, etc.

FYI, the last election for the Australian House of Representatives drew 90% of the eligible voters to the polls. NINETY PERCENT! - Here in the cradle of democracy we get what, a third? This election awarded 16 of 150 seats to third party candidates. Neither of the two major parties (with 40.5% and 37.6% of the seats) won a majority. That means nothing gets done without a coalition. Convince me that this wouldn’t be good for American politics. Good luck with that!

4. Perhaps set as our more modest goal, the task of throwing the Electoral College into a deadlock in 2024. While I hate the idea of the Legislature picking our next president, it would demonstrate just how broken our system has become.

I guess I am just reluctant to cater to the majors in any way. I don’t want to jolt them. I want to grab ‘em by the neck and shake ‘em ‘til their fillings come out.

The time for electoral reform is now.

--Vern

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."
- Vice Adm. H.G. Rickover

To your side point about voting rates and how wonderful it is in Australia.

It is the law that eligible voters have to vote or face fines and rare instances jail time.

One wonders how much thought is given to the vote by forcing people that probably don't care anymore than our 50+ % who don't go to the poll to make a choice.

Anyhow the voting rate is not because of more third parties nor are there more third parties becaus of the voting rate (that is due to other structural and process reasonss.

vry,

RET

Congress is currently non functional. The only focus is on getting reelected not solving basic problems. This will never change as long as the current attitude is that "congress stinks", however my senator/representative is doing a good job.

Unity should expand to provide an alternative in every state/district to "replace all incumbents". This is the only way to get the attention of the incumbents to focus on real problems rather than pandering to their base and them making the point that even "if you don't agree with my priorities (republican/democrat) I'm better than the alternative". A truly independent congress with no seniority coupled with independent Pres/VP could finally focus on addressing problems and not perpetuating the status quo.

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