I've been reading through a lot of the posts on here and pretty much everyone is discussing vegetable by products and glucose power, but, at least as far as I've seen, no one is discussing hydrogen. While I don't hold a degree or anything of the sort in pyro-engineering, physics, or, for that matter, regular engineering I do know what happens when you ignite a bunch of hydrogen. I've heard of experimental cars running off of hydrogen mixtures and I think this is the sensible long term solution, and before you all start going, "Hydrogen is highly explosive," well that is true but so is gasoline and they eventually got that working. So why not hydrogen? Because of the Hindenburg? What do you all think about the government putting in place a research intuitive for hydrogen energy research while using either corn or sugar cane production to try to keep us limping till hydrogen is a safe source of fuel?
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Gasoline doesn't explode, or rather only in hollywood does it explode. Gasoline actually burns pretty slow. Hydrogen in liquid form is pretty stable, burns in slow fashion. But has to be -200 degrees or so. In gas form to explodes. At about 70 degrees it has 4 to 5 times the force of tnt. The general rule in explosives is force doubles for every +10 degrees centigrade. I had heard some scientist had the bright idea of using replaceable cannisters for refueling. The cannisters he proposed were about the size of a folgers can, 4 to 5 pounds of hydrogen. With those you could do Oklahoma city bombing in the trunk of a small car, instead of a box van full of explosive material.
As for the plus side. BMW has had a fleet of IC hydrogen powered vehicles in service at Frankfurt International airport. They also made a couple in Mini Coopers on hydrogen, with a direct injection engine. Most companies want go fuel cell/electric. Which is good till you have to move some weight. ie. trailer or such.
Browncoats Unite!
I'm not sure if hydrogen is the answer to our transportation needs because it's explosive but I think it might be a great way to generate electricity. There was a company called millenium cell that developed a technology that released hydrogen by using borax and some sort of chemical process that released the hydrogen when it was needed. They were in talks with Chrysler several years ago about developing an automobile based on their technology. The last I saw millenium cell changed to building a prototype for laptop batteries. I'm not sure why, maybe they had a difficult time building their product large enough to fuel an auto.
I'm not an engineer, I just became interested in alternative energy during the oil embargo of the 1970's. It's 35 years later and pretty much the only thing that was accomplished was replacing muscle cars with those SUV land yachts. MPG increased some in our cars but no earth shattering breakthroughs have happened. It's long past the time to get serious about developing technologies to supplement oil use. There is plenty of oil left in the ground but it's not easily accessible anymore which means higher prices and more political volitility.
Gasoline is VERY explosive, if it is vaporized into a good fuel/air ratio. A gallon of it will launch a 3000 pound car about 30 miles. I don't know if it is as much so as hydrogen or not. Hydrogen will reach that very good fuel/air ratio much more easily because it's a gas at room temperature/pressure. Eyeballing the film of the Hindenburg, I would say about the same.
Right now, hydrogen is very expensive to produce.
Hydrogen has 3 times the energy as gasoline pound for pound. Hydrogen has a lot lower energy content per liter, but it's the lightest element. So you get a lot more per pound. My problem with it is safety. The boiling point of gasoline is anywhere from 100 degrees to 400 degrees, depending on octane rating. Most comerical gas would be around 250 to 300 degrees. Hydrogen on the other hand is -453 degrees. If you have a spill, gas stays in liquid form. Which burns slowly. If you have a spill with hydrogen, it turns to gas form real quick. If it ignites hydrogen will turn to gas form instantly. And as my post above states, with every 10 degrees centrigade incease in temp power doubles.
I was looking earlier. nothing beats nuclear power pound for pound.
the energy contained in gasoline per kg is ~45mj.
hydrogen is ~145
u235 is ~77,000,000
Oh, and yes hydrogen is fairly expensive to make. But there have been a couple of breakthroughs. On is an algae the gives off hydrogen as it grows. The other combines a couple of technology breakthroughs with what happened at three mile island.
Browncoats Unite!
Conventional wisdom is that a practical H2 car (safe, affordable) is 10 to 40 years away.
Electric cars are practical now. There is the question of how to increase the supply of electric power to supply electric cars.
Respectfully Submitted,
Sketch
Exactly! That is why we should use nuclear power, in combination with renewable energy. See the nuclear energy thread.
If we are going to electric cars, we must have more nuclear, wind, solar, and/or hydro plants. In fact, electric cars should be prohibited on grids using fossil fuel. The problem with electric power is that you lose up to 40% of it in transmission. If you are on a fossil fuel grid, an electric car might be contributing more to air pollution than a well tuned internal combustion engine. Right now, in most places, electric cars are a "feel good" gimmick. You can't see, or smell, your exhaust, but you can still complain about the smoke stack at the coal fired power plant.
CORRECTION:
I read an article in Popular Mechanics today that shows an actual reduction in emmissions in the use of electric over internal combustion, regardless of the power source. I stand corrected.
Department of Energy - Energy Sources
Phil
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The 2024 answer is here now (hybrids).For over 25 years I have worked on vehicles and was a master technician for ford .This is deffinetly short term but could reduce are dependence in a big way as technology progresses as well as carbon production.The big three over the last 20 years were all about greed and money and now with globalazation happening there getting outsold by foriegn car companys .Toyota and honda started the process and are recieving the rewards in a big way. America use to be innovative and first to the market with a good idea what happened!If you combine existing technology like alternative fuels with hybrids then you start to develop a true step in the wright direction.I know for a fact that everyone of these car manufactures has a well engineered alternative vehicle but keep on waiting to release them because of the cost factor or should I say they wont make the money they want on them.Where is the government leadership to say enough is a enough get on the train or get off.Buisness as usual does not work in government and in industry look where it got us.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2007/05/why_500_hybrid.html
Browncoats Unite!
Hydrogen can be made into a safe fuel as it was said earlier it has to be extreamly cold to freeze hydrogen but, not if you highly preasurize it which then when it is in liquid form is more stable. Or we could simple mix other gases and or liquids with hydrogen to lower it's explosive capability. It is a fact that cars allready exist that run on Hydrogen and hydrogen produces only water as a bi-product. So at the very least we should have cars run on battery's and use hydrogen to produce power at power plants. It is pretty simple when you think about it.
I mentioned an electric car based on a electric motor with a small generator that could run on a different fuel. Forget batteries. A gas/propane/methane/hydrogen/biodiesel/ethanol/.... pick your fuel electric generator in each car eliminates most or all of the problems with a straight electric or hybrid car.
No power plant emissions. No batteries to dispose of. Less fuel used. More efficient. And probably be able to drive 200 miles on a gallon of conventional gas. A little mini Honda generator could run on a gallon of gas for around 3 hours. How far could that electric car go on a fill up. 150 miles on a gallon. We already have the technology, government regulation and political interference is the problem.
Hydrogen is not being used as an energy source because less expensive energy sources (fossil fuels, wind, nuclear, and solar) are available.
President Bush promotes hydrogen to distract us from the fact that we are drowning America in debt due to our dependence on imported crude oil. If we use less crude oil then Big Oil will need to close refineries. Bush will never allow this to happen and will always place Big Oil ahead of America.