Has anybody bothered to check our history to find out if the President and Vice-President have ever been elected from two different political parties before, and how that effected our government?
Google "12th Amendment history" and find out.
Someone once said. "Those who do not know their history are destined to repeat it," or something like that.
What I can't figure out is why our leaders of Unity08, supposedly experienced political consultants, didn't Google: "12th Amendment history" themselves before they made this a silly nominating requirement of Unity08. If maintained, Unity08 is going to be the laughing stock of the entire 2024 elections.
Nothing illustrates the need to create a Unity08 Delegate Council more urgently than this issue, IMHO.
Forum Notice: An important subject concerning the structure of Unity08 is presently being discussed at GEA's U08 Delegate Council Yahoo Group concerning the establishment of a Unity08 Delegate Council, as well as a poll to ask Unity08 leaders to give the delegates a collective voice within the structure of Unity08. We need your guidance and support in helping us establish a voice for all Delegates at Unity08. Please go to: Send mail and help us with this just cause. Your efforts will be appreciated by all.
To address this subject directly on this forum, please go to Delegate Council must be formed.
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
originally the the VP could be and I believe it was Jefferson that had to live with it until the 11th amendment. Parties have no constitutional standing until identified as such by states or regulator authority established by statutory law. Unity 08 has no constitutional issue and or advised that they can get ballot status in 50 states. That is the challenge since every state is different.
Unity 08 is and will seek delegate assistance through local organizations and may or may not need any other delegate group at the national level than what is present on this website. Any other representative delegate group at the national level needs to demostrate what they can contribute to getting a nominee and winning an election.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
This is in Response to bill713's post:
Constitution does not address parties
Sorry, bill...I meant the 12th Amendment, Article II. I see you did you homework before you posted your reply.
In any case, electing a president and a vice president from opposing "tickets" circa, 1796, was an unmitigated disaster. Just think what structural problems this would cause in today's political environment. The idea is laughable. Nothing would get done in Congress because the President would be a member of the opposing party than that of the President of the Senate. Even if the President was an Independent, the President would have even less support in Congress. It would cause utter structural and political chaos.
These are just the kind of issues the Delegate Council should address, and many others. Of course, like you, I also support an executive structure to create an orderly process to vet these differing issues effectively with the minimum of disruption.
If you are a delegate and you would like to help bring order out of chaos, become a member of the ad hoc Delegate Council-Group, please send an e-mail to: Send mail
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
We are not electing the two separately we are elect a ticket as offered by the candidates for our nomination. That is the state of the Rules as I understand them and an issue addressed by the established Rules Committee. This is just not an issue.
The Rules Committee is always welcome to correct me if needed.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
This is in Response to Bill's post: So it's the 12th David
Goal One: The election of a Unity Ticket for President and Vice-President of the United States in 2024 — headed by a woman and/or man from each major party or by an independent who presents a Unity Team from both parties".
Rule 3.3: A Qualified Vice-Presidential Candidate...may not be a member of the same major political party (Democrat or Republican) as the Presidential Candidate with whom they will seek to form a Unity08 Ticket."
Forcing a two-party ticket is the silliest thing to come down the pike in a long time. I am sure Bailey & Company meant well, but just stop and think about it. How would an Independent president muster the support he/or she would need to pass legislation in Congress? If the Vice-President was from another party, that party would seek to undermine the President almost at every turn -- and I am being nice here. There are much, much darker implications.
You don't have to take my word for it. Read your history. There is a very good reason why Adams and Jefferson were the only president and vice president ever to be elected to office from opposing parties. There was constant bickering, endless behind-the-scene maneuverings and charges against Adams' "ungovernable indiscretion" and "distempered jealousy" made him unfit for office.
But, hey! this is a privately held IRS 527 not-for-profit political coproration being run at the whims of four people. They can do what they like, and if it means following a political pipe dream, so be it.
This is one of the reasons why I think we need to establish a Delegate Council, if nothing else, to provide additional feedback as the voice of the delegate body as a whole. If you want to become a member of ad hoc Delegate Council-Group, please send an e-mail to: Send mail
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
Jefferson and McAdams did not choose each other as our ticket will.
What is amazing is that you can not see the difference and try to turn even this in to a slap at the founders not to mention the Rules Committee that conducted a wide open two pass discussion with everyone's input before the draft and after....they just did our work with us before you got here.
Bill"for what we are together"
bill713.unity08@sbcglobal.net
This is in Response to Bill's Just take the rule as it is
Yes, Bill, I know. As I said, I am sure Unity08's leadership meant well. But the fact is, even if the vice-president agrees to serve the president, you and I, and everyone else knows, that's not how it's going down. It is sheer folly to believe this kind of political bifurcation is going to result in anything but stagnation and chaos. Only children believe in fairy tales.
3.2 "...and who form a Unity08 Ticket by submitting the name of a qualified Vice-Presidential candidate as defined in Paragraph 3.3 below shall remain eligible for the nomination. The others become ineligible.
3.3 A Qualified Vice-Presidential... may not be a member of the same major political party (Democrat or Republican) as the Presidential Candidate with whom they will seek to form a Unity08 Ticket. Questions of party “membership” will be reviewed and resolved by the Rules Committee.
4.3.g Unity08 Ticket: ...the Unity08 ticket will include a Presidential nominee and Vice-Presidential nominee who are not members of the same major political party. A Presidential Candidate and Vice-Presidential Candidate who are not members of the same major political party and who have agreed to run and serve together.
4.3.h Qualified Vice-Presidential Candidate: The Presidential Candidate and Vice-Presidential Candidate may not be members of the same major political party. In addition, the Vice-Presidential Candidate must be invited to join the ticket of one of the Presidential Candidate’s and agree to serve as his or her Vice-President if elected.
It's time to get serious, if you are a delegate of Unity08 and you want to become a member of an ad hoc Delegate Council-Group, please send an e-mail to: Send mail
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
You cite history, well, no third party has ever won - hence the approach taken.
Polls show the majority is tired of the pettiness and warring of the 2 parties.
Public demand will make it work.
US Marine vet Vietnam 4/68 - 8/69 5th District, NJ
This is in Response to Quicksilver's post No fairy tale
Wasn't it St. Francis of Assisi who said,"Never give a sucker an even break" or was that Dacarte? In any case, Quickie, trust me on this one. The idea of forcing the two highest elected offices in the land to divide power will result in utter structural chaos. Only the delusional and politically naive, begging to be duped, can go for this joke of a fairy tale. The people running this show certainly know better, or at least should know better. Now tell me again, just how do you think this is going to help the two political parties mend their ways?
If you are a delegate of Unity08 and you are serious about your politics, become a member of an ad hoc Delegate Council Group by sending an e-mail to: Send mail
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
"You don't have to take my word for it. Read your history. There is a very good reason why Adams and Jefferson were the only president and vice president ever to be elected to office from opposing parties. There was constant bickering, endless behind-the-scene maneuverings and charges against Adams' "ungovernable indiscretion" and "distempered jealousy" made him unfit for office."
Constant bickering? Endless behind-the-scenes manueuverings? Ungovernable indiscretion and jealousies? How exactly would you describe our government today? I for one would welcome a change. I know I do not stand alone. I'm not a history expert but I don't believe our forefathers wanted our country to be divided as it is by political parties. We need to change something. What is wrong exactly, in your opinion with unifying the country? I think most americans (9-5 hard working, raising a family, making a mortgage payment, paying their taxes etc.) don't usually think in terms of party. I like to believe we think in terms of what is right and wrong.
This is in Respose to kaldi96's post:It can't be much worse
Kaldi96, you decide; do you really want a government that is not constantly bickering, embroiled in endless behind-the-scenes maneuverings, and ungovernable indiscretion and jealousies? The only governments I know without such activities are totalitarian governments. Mind you, they too have the constant bickering, endless behind-the-scenes maneuverings, and ungovernable indiscretion and jealousies, the difference is, they control the press which allows them to give the facade of a "unified" government to their citizens. I am afraid the entropy of free discourse in an open political system is the price we all must pay for our liberty, and when you think about it, it isn't really a big price to pay. All you have to do is be leery of those who may come along and offer you a "Unified" government..you may get what you ask for.
If you are a delegate of Unity08 and you want to become a member of a Delegate Council, please send an e-mail to: Send mail
ex animo
davidfarrar
The National Cyber Party
QuickSilver
By the way, there has only been one Third Party President in the history of the United States. In 1860 Abraham Lincoln won with a Party that was only 8 years old, the Republican Party. He also was the only President elected while receiving less than 40% of the popular vote -- he recieved 39.82%.
How to Describe Unity08
Constant bickering? Endless behind-the-scenes manueuverings? Ungovernable indiscretion and jealousies? How exactly would you describe our government today? I for one would welcome a change. I know I do not stand alone