So, this thread is for us folks who are a bit conflicted on the presence in Iraq.

Just today, I read a story (from AP) about the military uncovering a torture chamber in a province they are working to secure. The local residents had known about it for a year, but were too afraid to come forward. I won't delve in to the heinousness within, but suffice to say, this is one less place where atrocities will be carried out. Earlier on, another torture center was found and raided, and two locals lives were saved. Their captors video camera had broken before they could be executed, and the sickos had wanted to film it.

I'm now a little bit more of the opinon that despite the fact we are in Iraq under false pretenses, and there needs to be some serious accountability had for that...there are things like these that make it clear at least *some* good is being done there. This is part of why I think I have opposed a blanket withdrawl all along, despite the fact I have a relative who has served in Iraq, and around the middle east, and who I know could be at risk at any time. It sounds odd even to my own eyes that I am typing this, as I do not see violence, but nonetheless, I have two angles that I can't ignore here.

Firstly, if one Iraqi child can get a night of sleep feeling safer than they did the night before, its worth us being there.

Secondly, I believe that those who have fallen need to be honored so that thier sacrfice was not in vain. We can do this by holding accountable the people who knew better before getting us involved, but also by being responsible with how we deal with Iraq. We want our families home, and out of harms way, yes. But Iraqi's want their families safe too.

One thing I have always felt was missing from our dialogue about Iraq was a more informed perspective from a wider variety of Iraqi citizens regarding our presence there. I want to hear from them: should we stay or go? Are you safer now? What do you want us to do?

I welcome your thoughts, in whatever direction they lean. Bear in mind this is for exploring the pros and cons, not for pro-surge/pro-leaving debates. I'm looking to discuss the grey areas. Black and white are already pretty well established.