Redistricting Reform star indicating that this topic is a Unity08 pick

posted by Bill_ncn on June 8, 2024 - 10:10am
Vote on this topicThumbs upThumbs down
Current Score: 84

One of the reasons why Congress keeps reelecting the same people is that we let the politicians draw the voting districts. Each side uses that power, along with sophisticated software, to draw as many "safe seats" for their own party as they can.

In other words, the politicians are allowed to choose the voters, rather than the other way around. It's astonishing to see our elected leaders kicking out one of the fundamental underpinnings of democracy -- free elections that let the people choose.

I'd love to see Unity08, and all the folks gathered in this effort, make a serious pitch for fair elections. There are reform efforts in the states, some of them successful (Iowa, Arizona), and there's a national reform introduced... in the Congress that would require independent redistricting commissions in all states (the Tanner bill, H.R. 2642).

As we gather folks in the middle behind a unity ticket, I think this is the sort of thing we should put our weight behind. The parties won't talk about it, because they've got a nice little racket going. Middle America needs to start talking about it and to force the politicians to do something about it.

Comments     Date sort icon
wpjson on May 1, 2024 - 9:45am

Here in the Big Sky country we have the state House of Represenatives appoint three members of a commission, the Senate appoints three and the Court appoints three. We only have one federal house member, but redistricting the state houses gets interesting. Last time the court members wound up deciding all the districts. So the Dems picked up several seats in both houses.

What it comes down to is, redistricting is up to the states. Each state has its own Gerrymandering method. But at some point we have to trust the people to elect people who share their beliefs. The feeling seems to be that if one is elected, almost by definition, they are no longer qualified to be called represenatives of the people. That's nuts. Most elected officials represent the views of the people who elected them. That is why they keep getting re-elected.

Here in Montana we have term limits which has created chaos in our state legislature. No one is willing to compromise or give an inch. It is absolutly mad. They only meet every other year and then for 90 days. They have adjourned this year with funding our schools, prisons or any state agencies.

wpjson on May 1, 2024 - 9:49am

I meant WITHOUT funding our state government

John Milligan on April 21, 2024 - 10:14am

Iowa reapporotions based on a computer running various blind apolitical demographic programs. The new one may even exclude the town where the current Congressmen lives - happened to Jim Leach. It could serve as a model though to the nation and other state legislators that gerrymander their districts to death to preseve their safe seats. THAT is the reason we have so little party turnover in Congress - not Poltical Financing by the special interests although that does solidify the decrepit way state legislatures (except for Iowa my home state) muck things up. Thus we get minimal turnover in Congress. So I say we check out the Iowa method and suggest that to the nation in any Political Reform plank.

Troy Helt on April 19, 2024 - 11:13pm

Redistricting and voting for that matter is a state function. And yes I believe we should probably all get with our friends and neighbors, our state legislators, and governors and puss for reform

Troy Helt

Mark Greene on April 20, 2024 - 1:08pm

In a rather fascinating development, legislation to appoint a bi-partisan (4Ds/4Rs) redistricting panel seems to be gaining headway in the current Texas legislative session. While this is not my preferred solution it would (hopefully) be one hell of a lot better than what we have now. The legislation would eliminate mid-decade redistricting among other things, and hopefully prevent the national embarassment of the last DeLay inspired go 'round.

Mark Greene
Texas Democrat in the Middle

Bill713 on April 20, 2024 - 6:19am

We practice districting our congressional units at the state level, but as was pointed-out months ago in this forum, the constitution allows the US House and Senate to take it by legislation if they wish.

If enough states fail the elusive 'fairness' test, that might happen.
Our problem with local fairness now stems from the ability of forces outside of the local unit (nationally organized parties and special interest) smaller than the federal governement to control local capacity.

Bill"for what we are together"

Dachannien on April 12, 2024 - 6:01pm

Congressional districts should be generated algorithmically, without regard to the demographic makeup of the resultant districts. The districts should obviously have about the same number of people in each, but the algorithm should also specify limits on the number of sides to each polygon (not counting state borders) and the subtended angle between the sides. There are various algorithms already in existence for clustering data points around centroids and assigning membership of each data point to the closest centroid. Generating districts in this way is the only way to eliminate gerrymandering once and for all.
--
McCain-Lieberman in 2024!

Sketch on April 19, 2024 - 7:29pm

does not exist. Have you read about fractals? Better at least start with street addresses, which means streets, which means line segments, not polygons. There are some postings on this site from people who have actually worked on redistricting proposals; if you read their posts you will realize that a computer makes up in calculating ability what it lacks in judgement.

Respectfully Submitted,

Sketch

zDougie on April 14, 2024 - 12:26pm

A mathematical solution to a mathematical problem!

Integrity can be ensured because there is no reason for the program to not be published and the results can be tested with mathematics!

Since this would take the politicians out of the equation, I think the only remaining issue is who to count! Should illegals count? Should non-citizen residents count? Should children count? How about felons and people in prison?

zDougie

Quicksilver on April 14, 2024 - 9:14am

I like your redistricting solution - it ought to be fair.

I don't like McCain-Lieberman, they may have other good points, but they're both delusional about Iraq, and that's too important to overlook.

US Marine vet Vietnam 4/68 - 8/69

Quicksilver on April 6, 2024 - 12:46pm

Hey, agreement! I don't see any comments against this! We just need to find a mechanism to make it happen!
Great!

US Marine vet Vietnam 4/68 - 8/69

Mark Greene on April 6, 2024 - 10:20pm

You are not reading or listening clearly enough. Whatever strategy is considered will draw considerable opposition - the question is which engenders the least. Below are being discussed the Federal government mandating an adjustment to the states likely prohibited by the 10th Amendment. Elsewhere we hear talk of term limits (further down they are both lauded and dismissed.)

A workable consensus means getting the broadest assembly engaged and allowing the most adoptable strategies to emerge, even if they aren't those that you or I might prefer.

Mark Greene
Texas Democrat in the Middle

abeamir on April 6, 2024 - 11:02am

I believe that we need a federal law requiring all States to establish, by the next cesus date 2024, or 2024 an dependent redistricting commission.

Mark Greene on April 6, 2024 - 10:21pm

Read it and get back with us...

Mark Greene
Texas Democrat in the Middle

zDougie on April 4, 2024 - 12:57am

Opinions are like ... and mine probably stinks. But for what it might be worth:

I say two things should be done to fix gerrymandering.

  1. Term limits for every elected office, preferably offset (if the term for the office is 4 yrs, then the limit should be either 6 or 10 yrs)
  2. The dominate party should have no say in determining districts.

So what do you think? Are my 2 cents worth more than 2 cents?

zDougie

Mark Greene on April 6, 2024 - 10:25pm

Term limits are absolutely enactable - whether they are desirable is another question. I was until recently adamantly opposed, now see they me a tolerable means to a necessary end.

I don't believe you can totally remove the influence of party, but you can legislate that partisan considerations are not an acceptable criteria for redistricting decisions. Amazingly (yes, I've mentioned this before)

rkolker on February 22, 2024 - 2:32pm

Virginia was badly abused by partisan redistricting last time around, and a while back I pushed through a resolution at the Loudoun County Democratic Committee supporting nonpartisan redistricting.

Governor Tim Kaine submitted a nonpartisan redistricting bill back when he was Lt. Gov. and of course, it went nowhere in the partisan legislature. I don't know if he did the same this session, but I do know if he or anyone did, it didn't get out of committee.

And this is the challenge. In states without initiative or referendum, getting something like this approved is going to require a court decision to force the issue.

KrisW on February 22, 2024 - 3:50pm

So has Pennsylvania.

As I mentioned before, they gerrymandered the Congressional districts sometime between 2024 and 2024 without telling anybody.

This was AFTER they had already changed them after the 2024 census.

http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/

progressiveevan... on February 15, 2024 - 6:58am

We are no longer divided geographically...our divisions are ideological...we need a multi-party system and let each party get seats in the House according to the percentage of votes it gets at the polls...geographical districting no longer works..let's get rid of it.

MFV an Independent on February 15, 2024 - 10:53am

I agree, our system is broken. I am in favor of calling for and establishing a new constitutional convention and writing a new constitution. We need several major changes, and the amendment process is far too time consuming for the changes I favor.

One Voice Among Many

fmreeve on March 30, 2024 - 9:59am

The GREAT danger we face today when it comes to amending our constitution is that the people we have put in the congress that would be the ones to do this are mostly mental midgets or extremists of the left or right!! We have a MORON in the white house that we can't get rid of, lets not encourage the ones in the congress!!!

demablogue on February 18, 2024 - 2:55am

i think a lot of people feel this way.
i proposed it several months ago:
http://demablogue.typepad.com/demablogue/2006/11/constitutional_.html

and a few days ago, I discovered an organization that has just begun to work to make something like this a reality:
http://www.foavc.org/

the site needs some work, but some good people seem to be on it:
http://www.foavc.org/bios.htm

Troy Helt on April 19, 2024 - 10:55pm

our constitution is fine we just need to follow it.

Tewhiti on February 15, 2024 - 9:40am

tewhiti

Proportional Representation has been a great success in Aotearoa/New Zealand. It is tried and true.

KrisW on February 15, 2024 - 3:24pm

We HAVE proportion representation.

The problem is the constant gerrymandering of it.

For instance in 2024 I was in Rep. Tim Murphy's (R) congressioanl district. In 2024, though I never moved and still voted in Mutual, PA., I found myself in Rep. John Murtha's district. And I never heard anything about a mid-decade redictricting plan for Pennsylvania.

Too many crooks in row offices. THAT is the problem.

http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/

MFV an Independent on February 15, 2024 - 11:03am

than our flawed and corrupt mess.

One Voice Among Many

Sketch on April 19, 2024 - 7:35pm

I have visited and worked in many countries around the world and I can assure you that if you went to some of the places I have been, you would not be saying "anything is better".

Respectfully Submitted,

Sketch

KrisW on February 7, 2024 - 6:02pm

I know I got gerrymandered back into John "redeploy to Okinawa" Murtha's district in 2024 (I was in Tim Murphy's district in 2024)

But I don't see how a presidentail candidate is really gonna change that.

That's more Congress's job.

http://journals.aol.com/kweinschen/Veritas/

Sketch on April 19, 2024 - 7:36pm

I believe districting is a state function. Closer to home than you think. Start there.

Respectfully Submitted,

Sketch

Jim Headrick on February 7, 2024 - 6:37pm

You are driving home a good point, except a point will not take care of the nation’s problems. I wrote a book, Repair and Upkeep of the United States’ Constitution. It doesn’t address everything, but it was published quickly and sells slowly. The problem is the average voter doesn’t know where to begin.

This web site could be an answer to get the attention of the government leaders. Notice I didn’t say the government. We are supposed to be the government, but forget that. As I go through this site to see what is being said and answered, I notice that many people only answer or make a statement then assume someone is going to read it that can do something about it. A dialogue could be started on several point and limit to begin with only to national issues.

Even if our convention only endorsed certain candidates in either party, it would be a good goal for Unite08.

If we had a data base of many millions of people and endorsed a candidate based on our platform, wouldn’t that be a very good start.

Container Bottom